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i say at least roughly 4 years but anything changes

Shore Road sub-station is expected to be replaced in 2016, which would tie in nicely with production time scales for new rolling stock, testing and other infrastructure improvements.

507/508s (assuming the ORR approve the Network Rail HLOS for CP5), should be withdrawn within 3-4 years. Possibly 5 max.

Stock will definitely be replaced during CP5, which is between 2014 and 2019.

The question is, will it be the 377, 378 or 379?

As Network Rail have described the replacement as being in the 3xx series and requiring a power upgrade, I am leaning towards the 379. Can't see the 378 going down to well in Merseyside. Then again, the 377s are going cheap at the moment, due to the amount being purchased by Southern in their massive DfT order, good press for "British jobs" with Bombardier, too.

Hmm, 4-car trains eh.

Still think 4 car trains recipe for overcrowding long term , you have to future proof for any bigger growth in the franchise , 4 car trains gives no room for growthand would stifle it actually.

Fully agree, Wirralbus. I see neither 4 cars nor 378 designs as at all plausible. Time will tell of course, but I'm sticking with 3 cars and a larger fleet: at least 10 more than what they have currently.

(09/01/2013 06:04)507009 Wrote: [ -> ]Fully agree, Wirralbus. I see neither 4 cars nor 378 designs as at all plausible. Time will tell of course, but I'm sticking with 3 cars and a larger fleet: at least 10 more than what they have currently.

I had heard that 75 units was a top estimate , remembering that when Merseyrail are at full strength as such they operate with 59 units , rarely though are 59 units available all on the same day even during Matthew Street and Grand National Festival periods.

(09/01/2013 06:04)507009 Wrote: [ -> ]Fully agree, Wirralbus. I see neither 4 cars nor 378 designs as at all plausible. Time will tell of course, but I'm sticking with 3 cars and a larger fleet: at least 10 more than what they have currently.

It seems that the original 4 cars idea may now become 3 cars

i think that the 377 or 379 would make a great addition to the fleet

I think they should stick out with the 507/8's until a stock is designed specifically with the Liverpool Loop in mind. Until they are in a position to do it, they should try and make the current fleet last longer. Maybe by cannabalising some of the SE 508's?

Designing units specifically for the Liverpool loop would add considerably to the build cost , new trains are now considerably more costly than even ten years ago and could make getting new trains so expensive its no longer viable for Merseytravel , trying to rework something that is already in production at this very moment may be a better option. It is the tight radius curves on the Liverpool loop that seem to be the problem.

What about the doors? Arent Plug doors not allowed in single bore tunnels? I hope that if the doors need re-designing, they don't use sensitive edge doors, or doors like the s stock use...