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The only enhancements i have seen on the run up to Christmas seem to be six car services on Sundays

(16/12/2013 07:15)MX12CFE Wrote: [ -> ]Squeezed on to very packed 508143 from bootle strand to sandhills on saturday afternoon with my 1 yr old niece in her pram conditions on board where chronic the guard came on the tannoy and asked me to put the pram in the bay provided which i could not do as i couldnt get near it and there where also people sat in it. It was a nightmare thought all trains where supposed to be 6 coaches in the run up to christmas? Also just been told theres no 6 cars on ormskirks this morning destination boards saying there 3 cars only is there a unit shortage or something?

You aren't wrong. The Saturday service on the Southport (and Ormskirk) lines outside the summer is very poor and it really shows in the run up to Christmas. I've just avoided using the train and taken the X2 instead since the end of the summer service if needing to travel on weekends. Even yesterday, the 6 cars were packed on both of these routes.

If there were no 6 cars at all on the Ormskirk line, maybe a unit broke down or even derailed at Kirkdale preventing the stock from leaving the depot? Saying that, one of the Ellesmere Port trains ran as a 3 car yesterday and was formed of 508139 alone.

That Ellesmere Port did start the day as six car but one of the sets developed a fault and was split down so the good unit was available for service .

I think the above comments on relaibility and capacity at peak periods, and special events further back my argument that the failure to deliver new rolling stock by now means that we are having to "make do"..

If people try the train and find that they squashed like sardines in uncomfortable situations it will put them off using the train again. Passenger growth is expected to grow year on year..A quick paint and polish will not help this.

As for being told to be 'Patient' I think 32 years is long enough thank you..So please let people make their point on a forum without being patronised.

I think my point is valid..

I thank you

(21/12/2013 08:20)WAITING FOR THE 437 Wrote: [ -> ]I think the above comments on relaibility and capacity at peak periods, and special events further back my argument that the failure to deliver new rolling stock by now means that we are having to "make do"..

If people try the train and find that they squashed like sardines in uncomfortable situations it will put them off using the train again. Passenger growth is expected to grow year on year..A quick paint and polish will not help this.

As for being told to be 'Patient' I think 32 years is long enough thank you..So please let people make their point on a forum without being patronised.

I think my point is valid..

I thank you

We are having to "make do" but so is most of the north of England when it comes to local services. In fact we are lucky that we will actually get brand new trains when Northern Rail only ever get cast-offs from the south! Reliability of the current fleet isn't great but to be honest it's not terrible either. Capacity is the biggest issue frankly, but it makes me laugh when people start proclaiming a packed train to be "dangerous", these people have obviously never been on the Tube!

Regarding age, it is worth noting that while the oldest 507's are 35 years old, class 313's are older still and are in regular service in the south.

Merseyrail will have pretty much no choice as to when a new fleet is delivered. As a TOC they will invest very little money on the procurement process. The decision-making and the money actually comes from Merseytravel and the department for transport.

(21/12/2013 08:20)WAITING FOR THE 437 Wrote: [ -> ]I think the above comments on relaibility and capacity at peak periods, and special events further back my argument that the failure to deliver new rolling stock by now means that we are having to "make do"..

If people try the train and find that they squashed like sardines in uncomfortable situations it will put them off using the train again. Passenger growth is expected to grow year on year..A quick paint and polish will not help this.

As for being told to be 'Patient' I think 32 years is long enough thank you..So please let people make their point on a forum without being patronised.

I think my point is valid..

I thank you

I don't think anyone has patronised you, to be fair. The thing is, everyone's welcome to their opinion but others are entitled to disagree with that opinion based on their own observations.

Regarding the capacity issue, up to 14 additional 508s have been refused in recent years due to disagreements with leasing fees and refurbishment costs. If they were truly serious about the capacity problem, you would think some of these would've been obtained.

The generally accepted lifespan of the 507/8 EMUs is 40 years, so by the time of the proposed replacement (around 2019), they will be around this age.

A train refresh won't address the capacity issues but it's not supposed to. The trains are grubby externally and looking tired inside, so it's a welcome aesthetic improvement in the interim. This has no impact on the wait for replacement stock: 2018-2020 have been the ballpark dates for replacement for a while.

I think one of the first things we will need to know about any new trains is how many will be ordered to be honest it needs to be more than the 59 units we now operate , what would you say would need to be a ball park figure , considering any possible extensions to the network in the near future .

If no changes to the current service are made, I'd say 70 3 car units. Would allow a few more Southport and Ormskirk services to be strengthened in the peaks, and also Chester services which I believe are heavily overcrowded, specially in the evening peak.

What I would really like to see though, is maybe 75 units and a 10 minute service on the Southport/ Hunts Cross line.

Could a 10 Minute frequency get through Liverpool Central without a complete rewriting of the Ormskirk and Kirkby lines which need to terminate , having to use the turnback siding could cause delays when the service is not running to time and passengers from the Ormskirk line will not like have to get out of there train at sandhills if that is used to maintain the service .

Well I've had a look, it can be done without using the reversing siding but the only way I can get it to work is if the Ormskirk/ Kirkby trains alternate platforms for each departure. There would be very little room for service recovery if there was disruption.

Ideally a third platform should be installed to relieve the congestion in the Central area.