At around 8 am this morning I seen the Solo from the 196 heading back along Prescot Road OOS, then about five minutes later when I arrived in St Helens, I seen an Enviro arrive in OOS from Gillmoss presumably to start a 10A. I admit to not being the brightest spark in the box but surely this can not be the best use of resources.
(24/10/2012 07:32)M60lad Wrote: [ -> ]Out of interest does Gillmoss still have a problem with vandalism only I havent seen that many bues that have a vanalism problem whenever I've been in Liverpool, as for the problems GTL had I think it only related to certain areas with Kirkby/Tower Hill being one of them in fact I'm sure once over GTL actually withdrew evening/late services from the area due to the problems that they were having.
There have always been problems in the Tower Hill area for as long as I can remember, as for vandalism issues across the board I really wouldnt know, but then there is vandalism and there is vandalism if you know what I mean, not that any form of vandalism is acceptable.
(24/10/2012 08:16)St Helens Rider Wrote: [ -> ]At around 8 am this morning I seen the Solo from the 196 heading back along Prescot Road OOS, then about five minutes later when I arrived in St Helens, I seen an Enviro arrive in OOS from Gillmoss presumably to start a 10A. I admit to not being the brightest spark in the box but surely this can not be the best use of resources.
That Enviro300 has always come OOS before they operated the 196 even. But I agree, surely it would make more sense to operate the 196 then that 10A with the same bus. There's no problem with full size buses on the 196 so I can only assume it's something to do with driver duties.
(24/10/2012 08:17)MPTE1955 Wrote: [ -> ]There have always been problems in the Tower Hill area for as long as I can remember, as for vandalism issues across the board I really wouldn't know, but then there is vandalism and there is vandalism if you know what I mean, not that any form of vandalism is acceptable.
Other than at particular periods, e.g. Mischief Night etc, any vandalism is usually of a very minor nature, (e.g. small amounts of graffiti).
The simple answer with Kirkby is just to terminate at the Civic Centre in the evenings.
Incidentally, should Kirkby ever become a "good" area, the Kirkby-Wigan rail line would get an evening service. It's only because the kids used to trespass/place obstructions on the line that they don't get a better service. The first service in the morning is cautioned from Rainford in case something has been placed on the line overnight.
What a lovely area!
I don't think that it is fair to tar all of Kirkby with one brush, the main problem area was Towerhill whether it is now or not I dont know, the train on the Wigan line has never worked late, well not that I can remember. I used to live in Kirkby until earlier in the year and it really wasnt that bad. That said, I didnt live anywhere near Towerhill, although I did when I was child.
First Class we are not in the forum to sl*g whole areas off like you have just done as it is not fair on the people that live there otherwise I can think of a few areas that could be labelled but I am not going to start that one. With regards to the first train being cautioned, well I wouldnt know about that one.
(24/10/2012 13:08)MPTE1955 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think that it is fair to tar all of Kirkby with one brush, the main problem area was Towerhill whether it is now or not I dont know, the train on the Wigan line has never worked late, well not that I can remember. I used to live in Kirkby until earlier in the year and it really wasnt that bad. That said, I didnt live anywhere near Towerhill, although I did when I was child.
First Class we are not in the forum to sl*g whole areas off like you have just done as it is not fair on the people that live there otherwise I can think of a few areas that could be labelled but I am not going to start that one. With regards to the first train being cautioned, well I wouldnt know about that one.
Crime in Kirkby is the ONLY reason the Wigan line doesn't get an evening service. Firstly because the line was constantly being vandalised, secondly because the traincrew were being abused. Everytime it is looked into, the BCR is badly affected because of the reputation of Kirkby. The unions kicked off about 2 years ago because of staff abuse/drug problems/obstructions on track. BTP are well aware that this is a key line for major drug dealing, (Merseyside into Lancashire/Greater Manchester).
There are other bad areas, but as it is a transport forum, it is fair to say that, if Kirkby had a better reputation, that it occasionally lives up to, transport as a whole would probably be better. Kirkby gave Stagecoach the ammunition to claim vandalism as a key reason for single deck operation.
Tower Hill/Northwood is a very deprived area, recognised by the EU as such, and it is natural that crime rates are often fairly high there as a result.
(24/10/2012 15:16)First Class Wrote: [ -> ]Crime in Kirkby is the ONLY reason the Wigan line doesn't get an evening service. Firstly because the line was constantly being vandalised, secondly because the traincrew were being abused. Everytime it is looked into, the BCR is badly affected because of the reputation of Kirkby. The unions kicked off about 2 years ago because of staff abuse/drug problems/obstructions on track. BTP are well aware that this is a key line for major drug dealing, (Merseyside into Lancashire/Greater Manchester).
There are other bad areas, but as it is a transport forum, it is fair to say that, if Kirkby had a better reputation, that it occasionally lives up to, transport as a whole would probably be better. Kirkby gave Stagecoach the ammunition to claim vandalism as a key reason for single deck operation.
Tower Hill/Northwood is a very deprived area, recognised by the EU as such, and it is natural that crime rates are often fairly high there as a result.
Crime is the ONLY reason? I don't believe that for a second. If your claim is true and it is not in fact due to lack of demand, can you please explain why the line doesn't get a Sunday service as well? Do the local pond life choose Sundays as a national day of vandalism as well? I find your claims extremely questionable. Kirkby has improved a lot as a town over recent years, and certainly the behaviour on Merseyrail trains is fine from considerably regular use myself.
If I'm not mistaken, Stagecoach do in fact still operate into Tower Hill of a night, so hardly suggests it is the "no-go" zone you infer that it is. Just from reading local news, I don't regularly hear of serious crimes from Kirkby being reported, or (without wanting to sound too malevolent) not to the extent of the likes of Norris Green, Croxteth and Stockbridge Village anyway. A further interesting comparison would be by seeing what the vandalism levels are on the 20/21 branded Enviro300s and compare them with other branded buses, i.e. the 10 and 14 examples. I might even do it myself, just to gauge if Tower Hill really is still that bad.
By the way, the other area on Merseyside recognised by the EU as being "very deprived" was Birkenhead. And does that get an evening service? Yes, it certainly does.
(24/10/2012 15:16)First Class Wrote: [ -> ] (24/10/2012 13:08)MPTE1955 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think that it is fair to tar all of Kirkby with one brush, the main problem area was Towerhill whether it is now or not I dont know, the train on the Wigan line has never worked late, well not that I can remember. I used to live in Kirkby until earlier in the year and it really wasnt that bad. That said, I didnt live anywhere near Towerhill, although I did when I was child.
First Class we are not in the forum to sl*g whole areas off like you have just done as it is not fair on the people that live there otherwise I can think of a few areas that could be labelled but I am not going to start that one. With regards to the first train being cautioned, well I wouldnt know about that one.
Crime in Kirkby is the ONLY reason the Wigan line doesn't get an evening service. Firstly because the line was constantly being vandalised, secondly because the traincrew were being abused. Everytime it is looked into, the BCR is badly affected because of the reputation of Kirkby. The unions kicked off about 2 years ago because of staff abuse/drug problems/obstructions on track. BTP are well aware that this is a key line for major drug dealing, (Merseyside into Lancashire/Greater Manchester).
There are other bad areas, but as it is a transport forum, it is fair to say that, if Kirkby had a better reputation, that it occasionally lives up to, transport as a whole would probably be better. Kirkby gave Stagecoach the ammunition to claim vandalism as a key reason for single deck operation.
Tower Hill/Northwood is a very deprived area, recognised by the EU as such, and it is natural that crime rates are often fairly high there as a result.
True, I wouldnt argue about Towerhill (or Knobhill if you wish ) and Northwood being deprived, I think Stagecoach would have went more towards single deck anyway, I still remember the days when I lived there and not knowing if the bus was going to be bricked or not. I also remember Merseybus terminating 20's at the town centre because of the same issue yet Fareway being brave enough to go there. When I lived in Kirkby recently I didnt live near Northwood either so how bad they still were I wouldnt know. With the trains, well like I said I can't even remember that line running at night.
offtopic i know but... Ive heard the Issues with Regards the Kirkby line from Victoria and Wigan based staff also so i dont think the problems are as minimal as people say i think they should just do a Rainford-Wigan service in Evenings and deny the people of kirkby a service
SLT, they don't run a service into Kirkby on that line at night anyway, so they wouldnt be denying the people of Kirkby of anything by running a service just to Rainford.