I do agree that it's disappointing to see a B10L on a late duty though. It's poor seeing the PX55 Darts on there too when you see other Enviro300s running dead back to the depot. I don't think it'd be a huge push to allocate the Enviro300 onto the late duties really as opposed to having them start running dead back to depot at around half 5 onwards!
Why the need to start swapping stuff for the sake of it though?
Yes it doesn't look great, but if the vehicle is serviceable and fit for purpose then it can stay out. There's no need to go to all the hassle of swapping vehicles between duties for the sake of it. For one, the engineers don't like it as it buggers up any milage related work they may have planned.
I'm not talking about swapping stuff though, I was making reference to them being allocated onto late boards just from the off. Arriva manage to do it here in St Helens so I'm not sure why Stagecoach can't manage it. Not only does having a B10L out late look bad, it falls pitifully below QBP standards.
So what there is a B10L on lates, what's the big deal, its low floor and is perfectly fit for purpose, it is also bigger than a dart. Arriva have had Marshalls on 10B's lately and similar vehicles Renowns on 10/10A lately. How many times does it have to be said that there is going to be the odd unusual allocation on services whilst buses are away and yet people keeping making a big deal of it.
we have had a few bad allocations recently but i dont think any of them made it onto a late on a QBP, i will say its a great bus and maybe i have got to used to arrivas way of working but to me the older buses should be booked of and a new bus brought out in its place even if it was a PX55 dart
(04/09/2012 00:44)CX54 DKD Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not talking about swapping stuff though, I was making reference to them being allocated onto late boards just from the off. Arriva manage to do it here in St Helens so I'm not sure why Stagecoach can't manage it. Not only does having a B10L out late look bad, it falls pitifully below QBP standards.
Sometimes, first thing in the morning, a bus that is allocated to a late board may well have a defect that means it cannot leave the depot immediately. The allocator will then look at which buses he has spare (if any!) and allocate that to the board instead. This has happened to me on numerous occasions and sometimes the allocator is well aware that the replacement bus is not really desirable for a late turn but knows that it is better to put that bus out than have journeys during the morning peak not running.
(04/09/2012 07:00)MPTE1955 Wrote: [ -> ]So what there is a B10L on lates, what's the big deal, its low floor and is perfectly fit for purpose, it is also bigger than a dart. Arriva have had Marshalls on 10B's lately and similar vehicles Renowns on 10/10A lately. How many times does it have to be said that there is going to be the odd unusual allocation on services whilst buses are away and yet people keeping making a big deal of it.
Well done that man, nail hit firmly on the head!
(04/09/2012 07:00)MPTE1955 Wrote: [ -> ]So what there is a B10L on lates, what's the big deal, its low floor and is perfectly fit for purpose, it is also bigger than a dart. Arriva have had Marshalls on 10B's lately and similar vehicles Renowns on 10/10A lately. How many times does it have to be said that there is going to be the odd unusual allocation on services whilst buses are away and yet people keeping making a big deal of it.
You've missed the point of what I was saying in it's entirety.
It's not a case of a B10L being the only vehicle available and yes, I'm fully aware of what it and isn't at the Paralympics so it's not a case of 'how many times does it have to be said' at all. To reiterate my point, which you seemingly missed, there are Enviros which could be running these evening services. Instead, they're on boards which see them run dead back to Gilmoss starting from around half 5 which sees vehicles like the B10Ls and PX55 plate Darts stay out right into the evening. So, even on a reduced evening service, there is no QBP compliance. If it were a case of the Enviros that are on there staying out but being backed up by Darts then fine but, that's simply not what's happening. Can't speak for the 10B but as for Renowns being on the 10/A, you'll find that they're either not on a late board or, if they are, they're booked off/swapped for a Pulsar at some stage in the early evening anyway. Not particularly usual one of those stays out late at all. As for making a big deal out of it, I wouldn't say so; this is the first time I've actually raised an issue with the allocations because, as I said, I'm fully aware there are vehicles down in London at the moment ;-)
(04/09/2012 07:39)DEM777Y Wrote: [ -> ]Sometimes, first thing in the morning, a bus that is allocated to a late board may well have a defect that means it cannot leave the depot immediately. The allocator will then look at which buses he has spare (if any!) and allocate that to the board instead. This has happened to me on numerous occasions and sometimes the allocator is well aware that the replacement bus is not really desirable for a late turn but knows that it is better to put that bus out than have journeys during the morning peak not running.
I absolutely appreciate that and have no issue with it during the day! But, when you see an Enviro and, for arguments sake, a B10L come into St Helens together in the early evening and watch the Enviro be driven dead back to the depot whilst the B10L stays out.. You have to wonder really. I should add that I appreciate that it's not down to the driver to just swap their vehicles on a whim though but what I believe should be happening is that, somewhere down the line, they should be getting instructions to do just that from a supervisor/allocator.
(04/09/2012 19:49)CX54 DKD Wrote: [ -> ] (04/09/2012 07:00)MPTE1955 Wrote: [ -> ]So what there is a B10L on lates, what's the big deal, its low floor and is perfectly fit for purpose, it is also bigger than a dart. Arriva have had Marshalls on 10B's lately and similar vehicles Renowns on 10/10A lately. How many times does it have to be said that there is going to be the odd unusual allocation on services whilst buses are away and yet people keeping making a big deal of it.
You've missed the point of what I was saying in it's entirety.
It's not a case of a B10L being the only vehicle available and yes, I'm fully aware of what it and isn't at the Paralympics so it's not a case of 'how many times does it have to be said' at all. To reiterate my point, which you seemingly missed, there are Enviros which could be running these evening services. Instead, they're on boards which see them run dead back to Gilmoss starting from around half 5 which sees vehicles like the B10Ls and PX55 plate Darts stay out right into the evening. So, even on a reduced evening service, there is no QBP compliance. If it were a case of the Enviros that are on there staying out but being backed up by Darts then fine but, that's simply not what's happening. Can't speak for the 10B but as for Renowns being on the 10/A, you'll find that they're either not on a late board or, if they are, they're booked off/swapped for a Pulsar at some stage in the early evening anyway. Not particularly usual one of those stays out late at all. As for making a big deal out of it, I wouldn't say so; this is the first time I've actually raised an issue with the allocations because, as I said, I'm fully aware there are vehicles down in London at the moment ;-)
(04/09/2012 07:39)DEM777Y Wrote: [ -> ]Sometimes, first thing in the morning, a bus that is allocated to a late board may well have a defect that means it cannot leave the depot immediately. The allocator will then look at which buses he has spare (if any!) and allocate that to the board instead. This has happened to me on numerous occasions and sometimes the allocator is well aware that the replacement bus is not really desirable for a late turn but knows that it is better to put that bus out than have journeys during the morning peak not running.
I absolutely appreciate that and have no issue with it during the day! But, when you see an Enviro and, for arguments sake, a B10L come into St Helens together in the early evening and watch the Enviro be driven dead back to the depot whilst the B10L stays out.. You have to wonder really. I should add that I appreciate that it's not down to the driver to just swap their vehicles on a whim though but what I believe should be happening is that, somewhere down the line, they should be getting instructions to do just that from a supervisor/allocator.
There will probably be a reason why the enviros were taken off, to the general public especially at night as long as they get their bus they won't care so it's only us enthusiasts that care about the QBP. Fact is that somebody with a wheelchair could still get on the B10L, and as said the bus is still low floor. Meanwhile I didnt actually miss your point and neither did I say it was you making a big deal out of it but if all the buses were back I think then more of an issue could be made out of this but this is a seemingly one off for stagecoach on this route.
You've completely missed what I said which rather gets to the crux of the matter.
How do you know the engineers don't want the Enviro300s back for maintainence? How do you know some aren't due in for milage based work and are on restricted diagrams?
It also causes hassle at the end of the day when the duty sheets printed for the vehicles have to be amended and uploaded back on to the computer system for future references. At the best of times there's a lot of work in that, so swapping vehicles just to please a few spotters definitely isn't on the list of priorities.
Yes, if possible the older vehicles would ideally be on the early finish diagrams, but at the end of the day in terms of features they're no different to the Enviro300s and are perfectly fit for purpose.