Forum | Merseyside Dennis Dart Website

312 will be introducing a couple of morning journeys during school holidays from 22 July, according to TfGM website. Journeys are at 7.45am from Stockport and 8.35am from Handforth Dean

TfGM are wanting to fill the school holiday gap in service.

(05/07/2012 13:49)jonesy3001 Wrote: [ -> ]They are the same layout as the 19xxxs just the reg and back number blind are different, stagecoach are just reusing the old titan numbers as they have ran out of 19xxxs as from 19900 they are the heritage fleet.

I know about that.
I was meaning more the extra vents, for the revised cooling systems required for the Euro6 engine, and the new exhaust system, which 10000 has but 10042-51 don't.
Rear of 10000
Photo showing rear of 10047
(Both photos: "selnec72").
There's also visible differences through the standard grilles. I believe the large amount of shiny metal in 10000 is the new CCV (although this would need to be confirmed by someone with more mechanical knowledge than I have): "A further emissions improvement is the new closed crankcase ventilation (CCV) system mounted to the engine valve cover. It is needed to re-cycle blow-by gases now counted in the engine emissions and has been repositioned for cab over designs."

Another difference I hadn't picked up on until I read a comment stating it, is the AdBlue tank has been relocated from the under the stairs to nearer the rear of 10000, 10042-51 (10045 certainly) still have the tanks under the stairs. The move of the tank to the rear is consistent with Cummins claims that the Euro6 engine doesn't need as much Adblue due to the mixture of EGR and SCR technologies (where in the past operators based their engine/chassis preference to either EGR or SCR), meaning a smaller tank is sufficient.

Indeed, as mbonwick said, the order sheets show "Emission Level" as "5S".

So far, there is more evidence to suggest they are Euro5's and not Euro6's, especially as Cummins only launched the technologies to be used for production from 2013.

(07/07/2012 02:22)cumbria0902150 Wrote: [ -> ]

(05/07/2012 13:49)jonesy3001 Wrote: [ -> ]They are the same layout as the 19xxxs just the reg and back number blind are different, stagecoach are just reusing the old titan numbers as they have ran out of 19xxxs as from 19900 they are the heritage fleet.

I know about that.
I was meaning more the extra vents, for the revised cooling systems required for the Euro6 engine, and the new exhaust system, which 10000 has but 10042-51 don't.
Rear of 10000
Photo showing rear of 10047
(Both photos: "selnec72").
There's also visible differences through the standard grilles. I believe the large amount of shiny metal in 10000 is the new CCV (although this would need to be confirmed by someone with more mechanical knowledge than I have): "A further emissions improvement is the new closed crankcase ventilation (CCV) system mounted to the engine valve cover. It is needed to re-cycle blow-by gases now counted in the engine emissions and has been repositioned for cab over designs."

Another difference I hadn't picked up on until I read a comment stating it, is the AdBlue tank has been relocated from the under the stairs to nearer the rear of 10000, 10042-51 (10045 certainly) still have the tanks under the stairs. The move of the tank to the rear is consistent with Cummins claims that the Euro6 engine doesn't need as much Adblue due to the mixture of EGR and SCR technologies (where in the past operators based their engine/chassis preference to either EGR or SCR), meaning a smaller tank is sufficient.

Indeed, as mbonwick said, the order sheets show "Emission Level" as "5S".

So far, there is more evidence to suggest they are Euro5's and not Euro6's, especially as Cummins only launched the technologies to be used for production from 2013.

good photos 22142/79 are back in service at Stockport

I stand on awe and humility, they are indeed Euro5.....,I just read the delivery sheets...
My apologies!

Thanks for clearing that up - you're not the only one, we were told they were Euro 6s at work. Perhaps there was a mix up because of the arrival of 10000.

(08/07/2012 07:41)Nicholas Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks for clearing that up - you're not the only one, we were told they were Euro 6s at work. Perhaps there was a mix up because of the arrival of 10000.

are there any more new ones due etc 10001

I'm not aware of any more new buses due.

The extra vent isn't for the CCV, I'm fairly sure of that - its too high up and too big.
CCV systems are just a small unit on the side of the crankcase or cylinderhead that cycles blow-by gases back into the cylinders.

I think it may be something to do with cooling of the exhaust gas for recirculation - something which is new to all-ADL products remember - and which is alluded to in the Cummins Press Release.

If we could get an under-bonnet shot, that would really help.....Nicholas? :P

(07/07/2012 02:22)cumbria0902150 Wrote: [ -> ]

(05/07/2012 13:49)jonesy3001 Wrote: [ -> ]They are the same layout as the 19xxxs just the reg and back number blind are different, stagecoach are just reusing the old titan numbers as they have ran out of 19xxxs as from 19900 they are the heritage fleet.

I know about that.
I was meaning more the extra vents, for the revised cooling systems required for the Euro6 engine, and the new exhaust system, which 10000 has but 10042-51 don't.
Rear of 10000
Photo showing rear of 10047
(Both photos: "selnec72").
There's also visible differences through the standard grilles. I believe the large amount of shiny metal in 10000 is the new CCV (although this would need to be confirmed by someone with more mechanical knowledge than I have): "A further emissions improvement is the new closed crankcase ventilation (CCV) system mounted to the engine valve cover. It is needed to re-cycle blow-by gases now counted in the engine emissions and has been repositioned for cab over designs."

Another difference I hadn't picked up on until I read a comment stating it, is the AdBlue tank has been relocated from the under the stairs to nearer the rear of 10000, 10042-51 (10045 certainly) still have the tanks under the stairs. The move of the tank to the rear is consistent with Cummins claims that the Euro6 engine doesn't need as much Adblue due to the mixture of EGR and SCR technologies (where in the past operators based their engine/chassis preference to either EGR or SCR), meaning a smaller tank is sufficient.

Indeed, as mbonwick said, the order sheets show "Emission Level" as "5S".

So far, there is more evidence to suggest they are Euro5's and not Euro6's, especially as Cummins only launched the technologies to be used for production from 2013.

Absolutely excellent explanation - it's rare we get anyone on the forums who are so eager to provide evidence to their claims unfortunately these days...

I'm glad we've finally cleared up whether or not they are Euro5 or Euro6, I've been watching with confusion the past day or two; I had my bets on them being Euro5 for one reason - the technology not even being commercially produced until 2013. However with Stagecoach being the main intake of Cummins products these days it only makes sense that they would be the ones to trial Euro6 specific engines before anyone else, which was a reason I thought maybe they were.