I can actually see Middleton getting new buses if I'm honest, I was actually told by a friend of mine at Middleton years ago that Middleton wouldnt be getting any Enviro400 and when I asked why (at the time) he said because of the state of the yard but he then told me then when the yard was reserfaced then they would be getting some Enviro400s and this is what happened.
As for Ant saying about Scroats, there's scroats in every area just look at Kirkby (Merseyside) the place used to be full of kids that used to cause problems on the double deckers to such an extent that when Stagecoach first took over GTL they banished double deckers from Kirkby and infact for a time never used to serve Kirkby after Dark because of the problems the kids used to cause but look at Kirkby now, it seems to have improved and new MMC400s run round there now regularly on 14s and the 19s (on match days only).
As for only bringing in new buses now Ant and not back then, just maybe Ant just maybe the depot is turning a profit, quite a few journies as has been said do leave Manchester with quite healthy loads, I work in Manchester and am able to see this sometimes when I'm on my way to work in the afternoon/evening.
(01/02/2017 07:08)ant17612 Wrote: [ -> ]Yet still Middleton has coped with everyone's cast offs and ex Bluebird & JPT Junk since takeover, why now decide to bring in new buses? Why not set the example from the start? I am aware of the situation with the depot yard being a state but planning on moving the older buses back across to depots they came from (59 plate Enviro200s basically) just seems ridiculous.
38 seater Enviro200s struggle on the 11/11A routes as well as other ST routes as it is and I would really hate them to see off the better capacity MAN's which are only 3 or 4 years older and have plenty of life left in them. Maybe converting every route (other than circulars) to double deck is the way forward?
Because Bluebird wasn't fit to introduce brand new vehicles into, the depot facilities were sloppy, the maintanance practices were poor, and back then the only potential money maker was he 112. Now the depots been broht up to a high standard, profits are up a long way from what they were, Middleton-Manchester finally ready for them. As for moving buses back to where they came from, they go where they suit, at the time the MAN's still had life in them, to to give Middleton "the next step up" 36095-108 were introduced, now there required to replace the MAN's so that's what they will do.
New buses is never the first sign of investment, it may appear to be to members of the public but there is a lot of money being spent before the buses.
(01/02/2017 07:08)ant17612 Wrote: [ -> ]Yet still Middleton has coped with everyone's cast offs and ex Bluebird & JPT Junk since takeover, why now decide to bring in new buses? Why not set the example from the start? I am aware of the situation with the depot yard being a state but planning on moving the older buses back across to depots they came from (59 plate Enviro200s basically) just seems ridiculous.
Simple answer is that stagecoach is a business. They probably wanted to see a return on thier initial investment and clear signs the services were making a GOOD profit before investing in new buses.
Remember they bought Bluebird for an initial sum, the depot and rear yard were rented so they very quickly acquired them, resurfaced the yard and then bought JPT and thier debts so perhaps we have come to a point where them initial investments have made a return. Let's not forget that a new MD took over in November, perhaps she's keen on expanding at Middlton.
What's not clear is whether these and the Gillmoss 33 are part of the new order or are additionals onto the 16/17 order.
(01/02/2017 21:34)Dentonian Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think there is a constant swap of services. Only 42group & 50 have swapped this week, although there were unfounded rumours regarding other services. As regards competition on 17, or most other services, the problem will be lack of capacity in Bus Stations and indeed the city centre as a whole. The irony is that after many years of "death by a thousand cuts", TFGM have reduced the size of each redeveloped Bus Station/Interchange, as (amongst other reasons) it can't invest in extra land just in case service levels increase again.
Do you know which buses have swapped from Sharston to Hyde Rd? The only ones I've seen on the 42B which look like swaps are 12256 and 12108
(01/02/2017 21:47)Dentonian Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting that you quote 201, but not 203-7. In saying that, I suspect you will find any concentration of vandalism is more to do with time than location. School times are obviously the worst, but I suspect late night is next worst. "Touch wood" its many years since I witnessed anything serious on a bus - I'm actually amazed how rare smoking is even on double deckers. I recall around 2002/3 (when Tridents replaced 100 pax Olympians on the 204, when it was a proper service), we used to get one group of yobs who always got on at the Apollo and got off at Showcase - why they never caught the more frequent 201 or 203, I don't know! - and always used to wait until the very last second before ringing the bell and dashing downstairs. One evening, words were exhanged with the driver and one of the trio opened the cab door and tried to attack him. Trouble (for them) was that the driver wasn't having it, so as soon as one punch was thrown at him, he got off the bus and hit back. Two of the cowards (and we're taking 18+ yo s not young teens) legged it, and the third came off worse. By now the Police had been called, and fortunately (this was when Michael Todd was CC), they showed common sense, treated the driver as the victim and insisted he wasn't fit to drive. We had to wait for the next bus(es), but I don't think too many passengers minded.
I only mentioned the 201 because I travelled on that quite a lot at one point.
I think schools have changed quite a lot in recent years. I'm not for one minute saying school kids are angels but the days of a bus being destroyed in one afternoon by school kids are long gone - and yes I went to Littlemoss school where the Maynes driver famously turned the bus around and drove back to school one afternoon as us unruley kids completly gutted the top deck of a Scania.
(01/02/2017 21:47)Dentonian Wrote: [ -> ]School times are obviously the worst
I majorly disagree here, in my own experience of Manchester in recent years it's usually the young adults post-school age that have caused the most serious damage, around the ages of 17-35.
Known examples of this would be the driver of the 135 who had his cab ripped open so that the passenger (if you can call him that as he didn't have the money to pay his fare?) could punch him in the face. There was the recent magic bus tagger who tagged the exact same window on every magic bus he boarded and don't even get me started on the undesirables who travel to and from the Northenden and Wythenshawe estates on the 43
Also the school kids really utterly trash buses too. Went on 1 of the new enviros a few weeks back & was disgusted with the state of it, loads of rubbish just chucked everywhere.
It's down to everyone who uses the services though to take rubbish with them & the free metro papers just ended up dumped on seats/floors which gives a really bad look & drivers really should take a couple of minutes (if they've got time) when taking over a bus to get rid of the rubbish as it gives a really bad impression to passengers.
(02/02/2017 13:56)33109 Wrote: [ -> ]& the free metro papers just ended up dumped on seats/floors which gives a really bad look
I do wish that Bus/Train operators would stop these being from given out on Buses/Trains. As you say, most people just dumped them on the seats and floors, which makes the vehicles, look like dustbins on wheels.