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There's also a few platforms on the Glossop line which need to be lengthened a bit to take 319s which should be done next year.

Dentonian - Are you seriously saying 140 or so passengers on a 142 means it's the busiest 2 car Northern service? If so I suggest you try the 17:43 from Knutsford to Manchester, on a Friday afternoon it can get up to 280 on a 2 car train with people standing blocking the doors being an issue. The 17:09 Manchester to Chester which is a single 142 may not be overcrowded leaving Piccadilly but by Stockport it is and even more so by Altrincham.

(11/08/2016 21:14)Dentonian Wrote: [ -> ]I said the busiest on the Hope Valley line - most of the other peak journeys don't even approach 100 passengers on double unit 142s. And its a 150, not a 142, which I think is even worse because there are so many obstacles and appears to have a lot less space than a long 142. That said, I can't visually imagine 280 people on a single unit. It must be worse than that Bolton-Manchester one quoted in the media as the busiest in the country.

OK I thought you were referring to evening peak services out of Piccadilly generally.

The DfT most overcrowded list actually includes services between Manchester and Preston via Wigan rather than via Bolton and it only services arriving in major cities in the morning peak or leaving them in the evening peak. Also different rules apply on standing depending on how close the stops are. With your Hope Valley one if it's a 138 seater 150 then Northern are permitted to carry 182 on it without classing the service as overcrowded, unless people have to stand for more than 20 minutes. A 2 car Pacer service which is so full it leaves behind passengers could only get to 9 or 10 in DfT's list simply because there's a lot less standing space on them than trains like Desiros.

A lot of the services that presently are overcrowded may be getting some form of relief when the new trains that are order arrive .

(12/08/2016 12:17)wirralbus Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of the services that presently are overcrowded may be getting some form of relief when the new trains that are order arrive .

It should be before then in a number of cases with extra 150s arriving next year and EMUs hopefully being introduced between Manchester and Preston and between Manchester and Stalybridge by the end of next year.

The other thing when these new trains arrive with there extra capacity how long before the services suffers further growth pains .

The Class 150's in the Northern fleet do have different seating capacities, they came from three different operators and were refurbished to different specs.

For instance a former First North Western 150/1 seats 124 and a former London Midland 150/1 seats 141. The ex LM sets have a higher density layout and the ex FNW ones have an accessible toilet. The capacity of the LM ones will reduce when they get the new accessible toilet, but to what I don't know.

You mention "long" 142's, a 150 is longer than a 142 by 10 metres.

As for the large amount of non occupied reserved seats from Manchester to Wigan, they will have been booked by someone. Very few people seem to read where the seats are reserved between. Well worth a look!

SD.

(12/08/2016 20:54)Sprinterdriver Wrote: [ -> ]The Class 150's in the Northern fleet do have different seating capacities, they came from three different operators and were refurbished to different specs.

For instance a former First North Western 150/1 seats 124 and a former London Midland 150/1 seats 141. The ex LM sets have a higher density layout and the ex FNW ones have an accessible toilet. The capacity of the LM ones will reduce when they get the new accessible toilet, but to what I don't know.

You mention "long" 142's, a 150 is longer than a 142 by 10 metres.

As for the large amount of non occupied reserved seats from Manchester to Wigan, they will have been booked by someone. Very few people seem to read where the seats are reserved between. Well worth a look!

SD.

As SD says a lot of seats will be booked from Preston and stations north of there. The same thing happens out of Lime Street on TPE/EMT trains. However passengers travelling to Manchester can normally find a saet for their part of the journey.

Seems to be a shortage of 319s again today, 142042 and 156483 are on Wigans and 142030 is on the Preston Express

(12/08/2016 14:58)Dentonian Wrote: [ -> ]Getting back to my train - which I didn't catch last night as cumulative delays on the morning train meant I had to make up 16 minutes - just nice to catch the 1705 - I once counted the seats on a 150 as 57 each half (total 114), so I don't know if some have more seats than others.

One carriage of most 150s has less seats than the other due to one having a toilet, luggage rack and wheelchair bay. The lowest number of seats any Northern 150 has is 124 and the highest any Northern 142 has is 121, so a 150 always has more seats than a 142. The ex-LM 150/2s have 149 seats crammed in so they actually have more than some of the 156s.