I think if it's sold on now, any operator would need to start to look at the fleet, however it may be better to carry on with the current fleet policy, by finding vehicles that are a few years old from within a big groups fleet, say if part of GoAhead source Midi's and Saloons from London, or South Coast and move them North then no need for a big fleet replacement budget, also a major issue is the garage as Halton had plans as I understand it to replace it, but didn't carry it out, as the premises are now time expired, sadly, and also a sub site is of course operated round the corner and has been for about 35 years which really isn't ideal. Yet there is no shortage of industrial estates around Widnes or Runcorn on which a new garage could be found.
Would Halton necessarily be sold? Is there a possibility that other operators such as Arriva, Stagecoach, Warringtons Own Buses would simply take over existing routes or register new services that serve Widnes?
As stated the fleet isn’t in the best of shapes and this I would imagine may put potential interests off. With Arriva pretty dominant, Stagecoach running the X5 and maybe looking to add to this in the Widnes area and Warringtons Own Buses making slow movements at serving the Halton area, would this necessarily mean that Halton need another operator?
(17/03/2019 10:27)RSTurbo50 Wrote: [ -> ]Would Halton necessarily be sold? Is there a possibility that other operators such as Arriva, Stagecoach, Warringtons Own Buses would simply take over existing routes or register new services that serve Widnes?
As stated the fleet isn’t in the best of shapes and this I would imagine may put potential interests off. With Arriva pretty dominant, Stagecoach running the X5 and maybe looking to add to this in the Widnes area and Warringtons Own Buses making slow movements at serving the Halton area, would this necessarily mean that Halton need another operator?
I would think it would be as the council will have the need to make the money a sale would bring, a big loss on the operations by a no sale scenario would likely put up council tax for the citizens of Halton, of course other operators like Warrington's Own Buses, Arriva and Stagecoach may try and run them off the road but to do so might not be seen as popular seeing what happened in Darlington 27 or so years ago.
Stagecoach have never made it a secret that they are interested in buying Halton, should it come on the market, even a few years ago they were making noises about it and it may fit well into there Glenvale operations and expand their network. Stagecoach lets not forget can replace the fleet very quickly with buses freed up elsewhere in its empire and with a sprinkling of new vehicles as well diverted from other orders, such as at Wigan about 7 years or so ago.
Halton's fleet is highly standardised but to some operators that would be a good point as it means the need not to store a lot of parts, simplifying the stores, and plus the successor model is still made, and likely to be around for a long time and ideal for Halton, given that the fleet is built around its predecessor models.
Of course if Halton was to liquidise the assets the only thing of any great value would be the depot site, although what could be fitted on to it is limited as it is rather small in any case. Of course the vehicles might make market value based on condition, but old style Dart SLF's are not what operators want to buy, they want ADL Enviro200's. The Scania's would be another challenge as well as most operators have found the Volvo B7RLE to be a far better model with a greater life span hence why few Scania saloons have been bought new by operators for several years, also the move to lightweight chassis also means the Scania's might struggle to sell in a batch of that size.
(17/03/2019 15:40)gilesbus1 Wrote: [ -> ]I would think it would be as the council will have the need to make the money a sale would bring, a big loss on the operations by a no sale scenario would likely put up council tax for the citizens of Halton, of course other operators like Warrington's Own Buses, Arriva and Stagecoach may try and run them off the road but to do so might not be seen as popular seeing what happened in Darlington 27 or so years ago.
Stagecoach have never made it a secret that they are interested in buying Halton, should it come on the market, even a few years ago they were making noises about it and it may fit well into there Glenvale operations and expand their network. Stagecoach lets not forget can replace the fleet very quickly with buses freed up elsewhere in its empire and with a sprinkling of new vehicles as well diverted from other orders, such as at Wigan about 7 years or so ago.
Halton's fleet is highly standardised but to some operators that would be a good point as it means the need not to store a lot of parts, simplifying the stores, and plus the successor model is still made, and likely to be around for a long time and ideal for Halton, given that the fleet is built around its predecessor models.
Of course if Halton was to liquidise the assets the only thing of any great value would be the depot site, although what could be fitted on to it is limited as it is rather small in any case. Of course the vehicles might make market value based on condition, but old style Dart SLF's are not what operators want to buy, they want ADL Enviro200's. The Scania's would be another challenge as well as most operators have found the Volvo B7RLE to be a far better model with a greater life span hence why few Scania saloons have been bought new by operators for several years, also the move to lightweight chassis also means the Scania's might struggle to sell in a batch of that size.
Reading buses are the only operator so far has bought the latest scania single decks (irizar i3) and that was about 2 years ago.
Metrobus is to get 20 hydrogen buses for the fastway so could we be seeing B7RLE coming from there to replace the scania?
(18/03/2019 04:34)TheShire Wrote: [ -> ]Reading buses are the only operator so far has bought the latest scania single decks (irizar i3) and that was about 2 years ago.
Metrobus is to get 20 hydrogen buses for the fastway so could we be seeing B7RLE coming from there to replace the scania?
The plan is for the B7s to stay there and replace older buses there. Halton hasn't been sold to Go Ahead, so I'm not sure why the fairly new B7s would be coming from there when they have a lot of older buses, and they are standard.
(18/03/2019 18:02)busesdotorg1920x Wrote: [ -> ]The plan is for the B7s to stay there and replace older buses there. Halton hasn't been sold to Go Ahead, so I'm not sure why the fairly new B7s would be coming from there when they have a lot of older buses, and they are standard.
Well the scanias did came from Metrobus thats why i was asking based on that.
And maybe your right the B7 could stay there when the hydrogen takes over their duties but we all know anything can change these days.
Network Warrington have registered the 62 from Warrington to Runcorn starting 23rd April.
Start of the end comes to mind.
Very different to what we all thought. It was said a few times about them extending via Widnes but clearly not. I wonder if they will keep on the SciTech journeys. I can't see passengers being too pleased given the price difference between normal WOB and Halton. The day ticket are £1.75 more and weeklys being £8 more expensive.
Could be all wrong with this but could a likely outcome be Halton Council simply liquidate Halton Transport with the Runcorn - Widnes - Warrington links getting passed over to Warrington's Own Buses (WOB) the services to Liverpool passing over to Stagecoach and the links to Frodsham/Cheshire etc. to Arriva/Stagecoach etc.?
Personally I'd prefer that not to happen and for the company to be sold but it is kind of interesting that WOB do seem to be making a few tactical moves into Halton's area that they'd have never really had the interest in doing so before and would selling Halton Transport as a going concern really raise enough money for Halton Council especially in these so-called austere times? As said I hope that doesn't happen as it's passengers/staff who lose out in that situation. As for WOB would a merger with Halton be a possibility? Might be a issue considering it too is council owned and it might also position it on the market to a potential buyer, very much so if it's strategy (i.e. Cheshire Cat etc.) is to become more of a brand focused operator in Warrington and the surrounding area's of Cheshire? Remember it too survived an invasion onslaught from North Western and to a lesser extent MTL in the mid-90's so not all may be lost for Halton in the long term.
Just out of interest could Halton's 14 and 61's be run easily out of Gillmoss? To Widnes probably but the runs to Runcorn might be a stretch too far especially with the congestion etc. Could the future plans of Liverpool City Region/Merseytravel also have a influence on what happens next with Halton?
It will certainly be a interesting to see what happens over the next few months.