Warrington's Own Buses

[knutstransport]

RE: WBT Network Warrington

(22/10/2015 07:52)Valandil Wrote:  I for one am kind of surprised that no-one has tried to compete on the 5 during the day since Warrington Coachways went, with half of Warrington's now running as service 35 instead and picking up virtually no-one on the 35-specific section of the route.

There are some subsides being paid to Network Warrington for extending services east of Lymm so if someone else registers a service those subsides will stop and Network Warrington may cut the off-peak Altrincham extensions again (as they did when Warrington Coachways ran a service.)

As has been mentioned it was rumoured GHA would register a 35 service but it was also rumoured they would be acquiring a further two Metrocities for Warrington services. Their latest registrations suggest they will require 4 buses for Warrington services (they already have two Metrocities branded for Warrington services) even without running a new 35 service.

Quote:PC1098981/27 - G H A COACHES LTD, UNIT 11, VAUXHALL INDUSTRIAL ESTATE, RUABON, WREXHAM, LL14 6UY
Variation Accepted: Operating between Northwich and Warrington given service number 45 effective from 14-Dec-2015. To amend Route and Timetable.

PC1098981/37 - G H A COACHES LTD, UNIT 11, VAUXHALL INDUSTRIAL ESTATE, RUABON, WREXHAM, LL14 6UY
Variation Accepted: Operating between Warrington Interchange and Dallam, Harrison Square given service number 16 effective from 14-Dec-2015. To amend Timetable.

PC1098981/42 - G H A COACHES LTD, UNIT 11, VAUXHALL INDUSTRIAL ESTATE, RUABON, WREXHAM, LL14 6UY
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Northwich, Watling Street
Finish Point: Warrington, Europa Way
Via: Warrington Interchange, Warrington, General Hospital
Service Number: 46
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 14-DEC-2015
Other Details: Monday to Saturday

[robertclark125]

RE: WBT Network Warrington
Network Warrington may not be for sale, but it wouldn't surprise me if one of NW's rivals sold out to a big group or rival. That's how a big group, or a medium sized group, can get a toe into the waters of Warrington's bus market.

[knutstransport]

RE: WBT Network Warrington

(23/10/2015 09:04)robertclark125 Wrote:  Network Warrington may not be for sale, but it wouldn't surprise me if one of NW's rivals sold out to a big group or rival. That's how a big group, or a medium sized group, can get a toe into the waters of Warrington's bus market.

GHA got in to Cheshire East by offering the best value for money bids in response to ITTs for contracted services. It helped that Arriva seem to have lost interest in contracted services and that Bakerbus have been bought by D&G, meaning less rival bids.

In Warrington that'd be more difficult to do with Network Warrington having the inside track on any WBT tenders.

[Katie]

RE: WBT Network Warrington

(22/10/2015 07:52)Valandil Wrote:  It seems that frequency of service is the most important point in the town, as competitors only seem to do well when they match Network Warrington's frequencies.
Of course, this is easiest to do on the least frequent and the shortest services.
Fairbrothers's 21X doesn't seem to have taken off and neither does GHA's 16(A), but the two companies have done okay on the routes where they have matched the frequencies.

I for one am kind of surprised that no-one has tried to compete on the 5 during the day since Warrington Coachways went, with half of Warrington's now running as service 35 instead and picking up virtually no-one on the 35-specific section of the route.

I am sorry but I don't entirely agree that Fairbrothers 21X doesn't seem to have taken off or that GHA's 16A is only running with a couple of passengers on it. I have observed on a number of occasions i.e. this morning - when on my way back from Warrington Town Centre I noticed that GHA's 16A; (which I think was their 10.08 a.m. from Dallam to the interchange); had at least twenty passengers on it. Further along on Winwick Road by the College Fairbrothers 21X was packed with passengers and NW's bus was running immediately behind it with only 3 or 4 people on it. Admittedly the Fairbrothers 21X was for some reason running some ten minutes late.

[RSTurbo50]

RE: WBT Network Warrington
Katie let me tell you. I work for NW and I'm always observing GHA and Fairbrothers loadings. The GHA 16/16A is 99.9% of the time running with one or two passengers. The 21X for Fairbrothers is better but in comparison to our 21 service which always has big loadings, the 21X is pretty much dead. The first run at 8.55am is busy as it picks up all the pensioners who pay half fair....after that it's really quiet.

[Lynx]

RE: WBT Network Warrington

(27/10/2015 21:30)RSTurbo50 Wrote:  Katie let me tell you. I work for NW and I'm always observing GHA and Fairbrothers loadings. The GHA 16/16A is 99.9% of the time running with one or two passengers. The 21X for Fairbrothers is better but in comparison to our 21 service which always has big loadings, the 21X is pretty much dead. The first run at 8.55am is busy as it picks up all the pensioners who pay half fair....after that it's really quiet.

I've seen quite a few GHA 16/16As with around about 8-10 people on during the day on a number of occasions through out the week. I find a lot of pensioners who have business at the hospital tend to transfer onto the first bus they see with "hospital" on the desti so its not really a consistent stream of passengers however.

[Katie]

RE: WBT Network Warrington

(27/10/2015 21:30)RSTurbo50 Wrote:  Katie let me tell you. I work for NW and I'm always observing GHA and Fairbrothers loadings. The GHA 16/16A is 99.9% of the time running with one or two passengers. The 21X for Fairbrothers is better but in comparison to our 21 service which always has big loadings, the 21X is pretty much dead. The first run at 8.55am is busy as it picks up all the pensioners who pay half fair....after that it's really quiet.

With the greatest respect I do not agree with most of your comments. I think it is incorrect to say that 99.9% of the time GHA Coaches are running with one or two passengers on the 16/16A. Whilst I accept that on some journeys they are only carrying a couple of passengers on the vast majority of journeys they are certainly carrying considerably more. I did give an example of yesterday's GHA's 12.08 from Dallam where there were about 20 passengers on board. Today my husband witnessed the same journey which left the hospital to the interchange at approximately 12.16 p.m. with between 12 and 15 passengers on board. This was followed three minutes later by Fairbrothers 16X carrying approximately 6 passengers. Ninety seconds later Network Warrington appeared and was carrying four passengers. I appreciate that this is only one journey but it is happening on more than you are prepared to accept. In fact, this week, GHA appear to be picking up even more passengers as a result of Fairbrothers changing their timetable which is aimed at Network Warrington and not GHA. I for one have no idea what Fairbrothers new timetable is as their website is not up to date but appears to be scheduled to leave Harrison Square immediately before the Network Warrington Service. By coincidence my husband also witnessed Fairbrothers 21X, presumably the 11.55 from the interchange on its way back to town, along Winwick Road with at least a dozen passengers on board. Shortly behind this was the Network Warrington 21 which had just five passengers. I therefore think it is incorrect to say that Fairbrothers 21X only carries any amount of passengers on their 8.55 a.m. service although obviously some of their services around the middle of the day which do not carry many people but presumably that is the same with all services. So far as the 16 and 16A are concerned you will be aware that Network Warrington will be making minor amendments to their timetable from the 9th November. It is our opinion that Network Warrington have lost a considerable number of passengers to both Fairbrothers and GHA Coaches and it is certainly not one or two here and there. We fully appreciate that you are quite rightly loyal to your employers and we both wish that you were right in your assumptions.

[RSTurbo50]

RE: WBT Network Warrington
So we have established that the odd GHA service inbound into Warrington gets the 'occasional' half decent loading. Maybe the case but leaving town from Bay 9 they are VERY quiet. Fairbrothers are doing well but the 21X is a quiet service, the odd morning run gets a few on but generally they run round with extremely quiet loadings..

As for Network Warrington losing a 'considerable' amount of passengers to Fairbrothers and GHA, I'm interested to know where you get your figures from..

[Lynx]

RE: WBT Network Warrington
I would disagree that Network Warrington have lost a "considerable" number of passengers to GHA and Fairbrothers. They have lost some passengers but like I say good loadings on GHA's 16 are inconsistent and generally down to the number of people who will have appointments at the hospital on a set day. I don't think they have necessarily taken any regular passengers from Network Warrington as like I say GHA's loadings are just to inconsistent to support this.

[Katie]

RE: WBT Network Warrington

(29/10/2015 14:07)Lynx Wrote:  I would disagree that Network Warrington have lost a "considerable" number of passengers to GHA and Fairbrothers. They have lost some passengers but like I say good loadings on GHA's 16 are inconsistent and generally down to the number of people who will have appointments at the hospital on a set day. I don't think they have necessarily taken any regular passengers from Network Warrington as like I say GHA's loadings are just to inconsistent to support this.

I appreciate your comments but I am still of the opinion that Network Warrington have lost a considerable number of passengers to both GHA and Fairbrothers but regret if I did not make it clear that I was referring to the three services which Fairbrothers run i.e. Westy, Dallam and Orford and the two which GHA coaches operate i.e. namely the 45 and 16/16A.

I was not solely referring to the Dallam service.

There is no doubt in my mind that Fairbrothers do carry very decent numbers of passengers particularly on the Westy and Dallam routes and it is my opinion that they carry more passengers on the Orford 21X than our colleague on this forum, RSTurbo, has suggested. I also disagree with our friend when he insists on stating that 99.9% of GHA services to Dallam are carrying only one or two passengers. This is certainly not the case. However, RSTurbo, has conceded that Fairbrothers are doing well and, if that is the case, the question has to b e asked where they are obtaining their passengers from? The answer is surely that before Fairbrothers decided to run these routes the vast majority of their passengers travelled with Network Warrington. The same applies with GHA coaches particularly on the number 45 service.

As far as GHA coaches are concerned I think you make a good point but the way in which Network Warrington and Fairbrothers have re scheduled their timetables is playing into the hands of GHA Coaches.

Referring to GHA coaches service number 45 to Northwich there is no doubt that they carry busy loads on most of their journeys. The Northwich service is one which we use regularly although we only travel on Network Warrington's number 46 by choice. As Warringtonians we are hoping that the Network Warrington number 46 service will be a success although - as you are probably aware - at the present time the service is suffering from horrendous roadworks in a number of areas on route which is resulting in it losing further passengers to GHA coaches particularly on the return journey between Stretton and Warrington interchange.