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A place to ask about the history of any bus route, hopefully someone can help! I'll start off with the 141 St Helens-Newton, I know before 2003 it was the commercial 41 by Arriva, but further than that I don't know?

Unsure about pre-dereg but after dereg I may be able to help:

Started as the 141 Mon-Sun all day Merseytravel service operated by Merseybus. Route differed from the present route as it ran via Peasley Cross Lane, left onto Sutton Road then as present daytime route as far as Earlestown then via Belvedere Road/Queens Drive to Newton Station.

Then in October 1988, Merseybus commercialised the daytime to become 41 with the evening & Sunday service remaining 141. The service was re-routed via Bradleigh Estate as Shearings had by this time started their 51/51P which service the Belvedere Road/Queens Drive area.

Sometime in the early 90's, Merseybus withdrew their daytime 41. South Lancs picked up the Merseytravel daytime 141 replacement. It was at this time that the daytime service was re-routed via Jackson Street with the evening and sunday re-routed via Robins Lane and St Helens Hospital.

I do remember for a short spell in the mid 90's Liverbus running the evening & Sunday 141 using mostly Nationals.

Again at some point in the 90's, South Lancs (may have been owned by British Bus by this time) commercialised the daytime and again it was renumbered 41.

I think this roughly brings this to the early 2000's.

Greater Manchester - Oldham - 425

Started out as 425 and 426 Circulars from the history I've read, alternating between Park Road and Glodwick Road/Mumps.

425 changed to run by Glodwick Road/Mumps both directions, 426 down Waterloo Street, and extended to Moston (care to help anyone?)

425 extended to Ashton-Under-Lyne from Holts Estate, to Fitton Hill from Oldham.

Other routes introduced, 421-6 all different service numbers serving generally the same areas.

426 cancelled, replaced by other routes, same for 421, 422, 423 and 424.

425 curtailed between Holts and Fitton Hill. 425 used to terminate at the Community Centre on Fir Tree Avenue.

425 now does a circular sort of route in Fitton Hill.

Curtailed to run every 12 minutes from previously every 10 minutes.

Thanks very much St Helens Rider! Certainly interesting and a lot more varied than what we have today! So Arriva got the route through takeover of South Lancs then?

Basically yes. In fact at that time in the mid 90's, South Lancs had quite a network in St Helens.

49/49A (St Helens - Prescot - Huyton - Broad Green)

52/57 (St Helens - Rainford)

55 (St Helens - Eccleston)

60 (St Helens - Hard Lane)

70 (St Helens - Eccleston)

94/95 (St Helens - Prescot Circulars

As well as the daytime Merseytravel 197 (St Helens - Carr Mill). As well as the already mentioned 41. I know at one point they also ran some 309/319 (St Helens - Ormskirk/Southport) journeys.

Interesting, I'm guessing they went on to become services such as 152, 155, 170 and 194/195? What happened to the 49/49A, any relation to the old 39?

Was indeed. Arriva renumbered it 39/39A I think around the time just after the MTL takeover in 2000. The 52 was very similar to today's 38 (although some journeys ran via Crank like the 152), the 57 just did direct into Rainford turning opposite the Bridge Inn, the 55 later became the 155 and became a Merseytravel contract again (later run by Hattons, HTL, Timeline and Ogdens), the 70 ran as per today's 139 as far as Ellison Drive, then Dodd Avenue, Alder Hey Road, Millfields, then round the Norley Drive/Saleswood Avenue loop the 137/138 cover today. South Lancs ran the daytime 194/195 for a time before commercialising them to become 94/95 in the daytime.

Thanks again St Helens Rider!

Arrive 423 Seacombe-Liverpool started out at D-Reg as the 36 Seacombe-Woodside although from Reeds Lane it went direct via Hoylake Road & Upton Road, not sure when it was diverted to operate via Sandbrook & Town Meadow b ut think it was sometime in 1987. 1989 saw a change in number when it became the 3A & it stayed that number until Arriva brought MTL & became 423. The 3A/423 interworked with the 37 later 437[which themselves have an interesting history], so when the 437 Evening & Sunday service was diverted to Liverpool think in 2003, the 423 was diverted to Liverpool as well, although the 423 no longer interworks the 437.

The very first bus service to Moreton was a Birkenhead Corpy route from Rock Ferry in 1919, but wasn't given a number until 1931 when it became 26, the route was extended to Bermuda Road in 1927, also the route was extended to Bromborough in 1932 & renumbered to 28 in 1948. The biggest change came in 1979 when it was extended at both ends to West Kirby-Mill Park replacing the Crosville route via Moreton. Another change happened in 1985 when the 28 was cut to back to operate Bermuda Road-Mill Park & renumbered to 40 with an Evening & Sunday service numbered 40A diverting via Sandbrook. At D-Reg the 40 was extended to Saughall Massie with 40A withdrawn. Not Sure when the Evening & Sunday became the Merseytravel contracted service 240, but think the daytime service was Withdrawn in 1989. The 240 lasted until a couple of years ago when Avon commercialised the route to 40 with 40A introduced, then diverting the route via the First 41/42 from Birkenhead to Mill Park.