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I thought the 403/13/23 could trace their roots but not necessarily their routes back to the combination of former Birkenhead 77 and former Wallasey 3 around about the late 1970s. This became MPTE route 3.

(11/10/2012 16:35)SNL 824 Wrote: [ -> ]I thought the 403/13/23 could trace their roots but not necessarily their routes back to the combination of former Birkenhead 77 and former Wallasey 3 around about the late 1970s. This became MPTE route 3.

423 is slightly different from the 3 as it goes through Liscard, the 3 never has gone through Liscard, although yep does cover the old 77. Actually the 423 has origins from the old 3/4/5 & 77, although the 3 was originally numbered the 4.

One of the most interesting routes in St Helens since deregulation is the 10. It started out operating between St Helens and Liverpool, before being extended into Ashton, then Bolton and eventually into Manchester. I'm not entirely sure how long this journey took or what route was taken, but it was a real mammoth of a journey.

Eventually, of course, after peace broke out between MTL and GMN/GMS the service was cut back to Ashton again, and then diverted into Earlestown, befor going back to its origins and just running between Liverpool and St Helens after the Arriva takeover.

Does anybody else have any memories of this route from the MTL era?

CMT extended the 10A to Parr as well didn't they, how did that come about?

Not sure about CMT's extension but I remember in the late 80's/early 90's North Western's extended their 10A through to Parr (Derbyshire Hill Road/Fleet Lane Terminus). This extension lasted for quite a number of years. CMT's 10A only went as far as the Horseshoe.

As for the 10, pre-dereg the service only ran Prescot to Liverpool. Only after dereg was the servcie (along with the introduction of the 10A) were extended to St Helens. St Helens - Prescot pre-dereg was served by the 7 (St Helens - Rainhill - Prescot - Eccleston Park - St Helens) and 8 opposite direction..

The 10's extension's in the early 90's started in around 1992 when the service was extended to Bolton, via Ashton (present 320 route) and Leigh (present 600 & 582 routes). Then under Lancashire Travel the service was extended to Manchester, from Ashton went via a similar route to the 620, then from Bolton via the old 12 route.

The North Western 10A was extended to Parr from the beginning of 1992. I can still remember the extension running during the Summer of 1995 but am not exactly sure of when it ended. The CMT extension to Parr continued under GTL ownership, and was presumably just an attempt to compete with Arriva over this section of the route.

I am aware of three pre-deregulation routes running between St Helens and Liverpool, namely the 39,317 and 320 but am unsure of the routes these took or which operators/depots ran them.

The 39 and 320 were jointly GMPTE/MPTE and mostly took the same route as the 10's before turning at Holt Road and running down Brownlow Hill.

(12/10/2012 15:35)St Helens Rider Wrote: [ -> ]The 39 and 320 were jointly GMPTE/MPTE and mostly took the same route as the 10's before turning at Holt Road and running down Brownlow Hill.

Back to the late 70s again. I also remember the 10 running to prescot and i think it was largely operated by ex-Birkenhead PD2s at that time. I went out to St Helens occasionally on Lancasire United. I think this was either the 39 or 320 service referenced above. I think then LUT ended up in GMPTE . But it was a lot of beers ago and the memory is hazy. The only real recollection I have is red and cream rear loaders departing from outside the Town Hall inluding a couple of ex-Birkenhead examples, which looked really god in MPTE "St helens" livery, particularly compared to their peers on the 10 in overall green..

GMPTE took over LUT in 1976 and operations were merged. The LUT name disappeared in 1981.

(12/10/2012 17:07)St Helens Rider Wrote: [ -> ]GMPTE took over LUT in 1976 and operations were merged. The LUT name disappeared in 1981.

OK thanks - that takes a few beers out of the equation! I quite liked LUT and their fleet at the time.