That's interesting, reading through one of my books, late 50s they have 317 running Wigan-Liverpool via Billinge, main route was St Helens-Liverpool, mostly to provide an even frequency with the 39 & 320, 317 was withdrawn in 1979 with improvements to the rail frequencies
What's the most stable route going, which is a route that hasn't had many route changes other than one way systems, terminus moved around the corner as in New Brighton, or Liverpool City Centre ecc.
I was thinking about it because the 410 New Brighton-Clatterbridge hasn't had many route changes, other than an hourly extension to Parkgate, core route Clatterbridge-New Brighton has changed little other than no longer serves Cleveland Street, the original 10 was New Brighton-New Ferry following most of the current 410 but via Cleveland Street between Duke Street & Hamilton Square terminus in New Brighton was Virginia Road, mid 70s the 10 was extended to Clatterbridge as a replacement for the 58/58C Woodside-Clatterbridge, route stayed unchanged until d-reg apart minor rerouting to serve Woodside.
At d-reg 10 route was unchanged but a new 10A was introduced via Park Station, via the current 410, the 10 was withdrawn in 89, the 10A became the main route, early 90s one 10A an hour was extended to Parkgate as 10B think this replaced the old 87 Woodside-Parkgate, 10C New Brighton-Chester, was introduced in 96 this was originally 1C New Brighton-Chester, but was diverted via Liscard & became 10C , routes late 90s, things stayed as they were until Arriva took over, 10C became 401 & diverted via Seacombe, 10B withdrawn, 10A renumbered 410
(08/01/2020 20:00)MTL0201 Wrote: [ -> ]What's the most stable route going, which is a route that hasn't had many route changes other than one way systems, terminus moved around the corner as in New Brighton, or Liverpool City Centre ecc.
I was thinking about it because the 410 New Brighton-Clatterbridge hasn't had many route changes, other than an hourly extension to Parkgate, core route Clatterbridge-New Brighton has changed little other than no longer serves Cleveland Street, the original 10 was New Brighton-New Ferry following most of the current 410 but via Cleveland Street between Duke Street & Hamilton Square terminus in New Brighton was Virginia Road, mid 70s the 10 was extended to Clatterbridge as a replacement for the 58/58C Woodside-Clatterbridge, route stayed unchanged until d-reg apart minor rerouting to serve Woodside.
At d-reg 10 route was unchanged but a new 10A was introduced via Park Station, via the current 410, the 10 was withdrawn in 89, the 10A became the main route, early 90s one 10A an hour was extended to Parkgate as 10B think this replaced the old 87 Woodside-Parkgate, 10C New Brighton-Chester, was introduced in 96 this was originally 1C New Brighton-Chester, but was diverted via Liscard & became 10C , routes late 90s, things stayed as they were until Arriva took over, 10C became 401 & diverted via Seacombe, 10B withdrawn, 10A renumbered 410
The 411 has had an interesting history as well. At one point, it ran to Chester
(11/01/2020 13:30)Walton 46 Wrote: [ -> ]The 411 has had an interesting history as well. At one point, it ran to Chester
It does, started out as
1 New Brighton-Seacombe, Wallasey Corporation
1A New Brighton-Seacombe, Wallasey Corporation
12 Charing Cross-Egremont, Birkenhead Corporation
1A went down some side streets in New Brighton & Egremont
PTE merged the 1 & 12 in the mid 70s to become New Brighton-Charing Cross, 1A was withdrawn
1985 one, 1 an hour was extended to Poulton Lancelyn replacing the 12, numbered 1A
At d-reg the 1 was extended to Woodside with a Merseytravel 101 introduced, 1A withdrawn.
In 1991, Merseybus extended the 1 as 1C to operate New Brighton-Chester, partly replacing 9C/10C which were Liscard/Woodside-Chester via Ellesmere Port, 1C operated direct via A4, evenings were 1/1C but Sunday's it was 1 New Brighton-Woodside only
In 1996 1C was diverted via Liscard & renumbered 10C, leaving the 1 New Brighton-Woodside, the 1 interworked with the 431/432/433/434
After the Arriva takeover, Arriva changed the routes, 10C was withdrawn, 1 renumbered 401 & extended to Chester replacing 10C, evening & Sundays Merseytravel tendered New Brighton-Woodside only but numbered 401
Not sure when, but the 401 was diverted to operate Liverpool-Chester, 401 New Brighton-Woodside section renumbered 411, 411 has stayed virtually unchanged but rerouted a few years ago into it's current route via Twelve Quays.
(11/01/2020 18:17)MTL0201 Wrote: [ -> ]It does, started out as
1 New Brighton-Seacombe, Wallasey Corporation
1A New Brighton-Seacombe, Wallasey Corporation
12 Charing Cross-Egremont, Birkenhead Corporation
1A went down some side streets in New Brighton & Egremont
PTE merged the 1 & 12 in the mid 70s to become New Brighton-Charing Cross, 1A was withdrawn
1985 one, 1 an hour was extended to Poulton Lancelyn replacing the 12, numbered 1A
At d-reg the 1 was extended to Woodside with a Merseytravel 101 introduced, 1A withdrawn.
In 1991, Merseybus extended the 1 as 1C to operate New Brighton-Chester, partly replacing 9C/10C which were Liscard/Woodside-Chester via Ellesmere Port, 1C operated direct via A4, evenings were 1/1C but Sunday's it was 1 New Brighton-Woodside only
In 1996 1C was diverted via Liscard & renumbered 10C, leaving the 1 New Brighton-Woodside, the 1 interworked with the 431/432/433/434
After the Arriva takeover, Arriva changed the routes, 10C was withdrawn, 1 renumbered 401 & extended to Chester replacing 10C, evening & Sundays Merseytravel tendered New Brighton-Woodside only but numbered 401
Not sure when, but the 401 was diverted to operate Liverpool-Chester, 401 New Brighton-Woodside section renumbered 411, 411 has stayed virtually unchanged but rerouted a few years ago into it's current route via Twelve Quays.
I've just looked at my timetable collection and the changeover appears to have occurred sometime during 2007. I have two timetables; one dated 7th January and one dated 24th December.
In the first one, the 401 operated from New Brighton to Chester Monday-Saturday daytime and there was also a 402 which mirrored the 401 from New Brighton but finished at Cheshire Oaks, again Monday-Saturday daytime and Sunday daytime service 411/412. There was also an X11 which ran hourly Monday-Saturday daytime between Sir Thomas Street in Liverpool and Chester via Birkenhead Bus Station, the New Ferry bypass and the direct route between Great Sutton and Backford.
By the time the second one was published, the service had been split at Birkenhead. The 401 was revised to operate from Sir Thomas Street and was rerouted via New Chester Road instead of Old Chester Road. The 402 was revised to start from Woodside but curtailed at the southern end, finished in Ellesmere Port. The 401/402 also had route revisions between Little Sutton and Ellesmere Port and a new circular service 404 had been introduced between Stanney Grange and Little Sutton. The X11 had also been reduced to a handful of Monday-Friday peak hour services. The 24th December timetable also mentions a 441 service which had been withdrawn on that date, but I don't have any details to hand
The 441 was part of a short lived Arriva/First bus war, in 2006-07, 441 was Birkenhead-Bromborough Cross covering First 41/42, Arriva had a 470 Birkenhead-Arrowe Park Hospital via Woodchurch, First responded by introducing a 32/33 via the 432/433
I forgot about the X11, that became the direct route, via A41, ended up being withdrawn
There was a 447 Overchurch Road-Chester via Ellesmere Port[went via Grace Road in the Port], this was renumbered from 442 Overchurch Road-New Ferry & extended to Chester, i think this became 402 on a revised route
Also 418/419 was extended from Mill Park to Cheshire Oaks via Ellesmere Port which covered the Arriva 404 in the Port, didn't last long thogh
Those where the interesting days on the Wirral , sometimes dont you just wish there was still that variety these days .
Now its just plain vanilla Stagecoach and Arriva , the place has a feeling of Crosville and the MPTE
There was an earlier Merseybus/Crosville bus war in the late 80s, started when Gold Star of St Asaph trading as Busman Buses, introduced routes on the Wirral, both Merseybus & Crosville introduced competing routes against Busman Buses, also against each other, Busman Buses brought & used ex Laird Street Fleetlines which the PTE withdrew at d-reg;
Crosville introduced a route C10 New Brighton-Ellesmere Port, later shortened to Rock Ferry, Merseybus introduced the 9C/10C Chester-Woodside/Liscard via Ellesmere Port, also a 66 Clatterbridge-Stanney Grange, covering a Crosville route, Crosville introduced a 37A West Kirby-Liverpool, covering most of the Merseybus 37 but diverting to Liverpool, think Merseybus responded by introducing the 437, instead of Woodside, Crosville also registered the 41/70/70A, over Merseybus 41/70/70A.
Busman Buses didn't last long, after an agreement Crosville pulled out of operating C10/37A, Merseybus pulled out of operating 41/70/70A, now Stagecoach 41/42, withdrew the 66, Merseybus kept the 9C/10C before revising it to 1C
I've recently noticed Arriva's 437 and 487 were originally Crosville routes 81 and 87. Any ideas as to when they changed hands?
(13/01/2020 19:29)Walton 46 Wrote: [ -> ]I've recently noticed Arriva's 437 and 487 were originally Crosville routes 81 and 87. Any ideas as to when they changed hands?
81 dates back to F34 Liscard-Park Station via West Kirby, in 1979 the PTE in agreement with Crosville split the F34, to 81/82 West Kirby Woodside operated by Crosville, whilst the Liscard section becamew 7/8 New Brighton-Newton, operated by PTE
F37/F38/F39 Park Station-West Kirby/Newton was replaced by extending the PTE 28 to operate Mill Park-West Kirby
81 operated via current 437 to Conway Street & to Woodside, whilst 82 went via Column Road, & Grange Cross Lane to Newton, also went via current 38/38A Claughton-Conway Street
In 1985 7/8/81/82 was withdrawn & replaced by 37/37A/38/39, 38/39 circle services replacing 28 which was cut to Moreton Bermuda Road renumbered 40, PTE operating the 37/37A Crosville operated some 37/37A journey's, Crosville operated the 38/39
37 replaced the 7/8/81 operating New Brighton-Woodside via West Kirby, Crosville operated some 37
38/39 replaced the 82 Woodside West Kirby Circular, 37A, 37A was an evening & Sunday route via 38/39
At d-reg Merseybus took over the 37/38/39, think the 37A was withdrawn at d-reg, however 38/39 didn't last long
Late 80s short lived Merseybus/Crosville bus war, Crosville started a 37A West Kirby-Liverpool, don't think Merseybus responded with the 437 until an agreement to end the bus war, Merseybus pulled out of the 41/70/70A, Crosville pulled out of the 37A, but Merseybus introduced the 437 as replacement