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Shame about the 227 going - I'll have to have a ride on that before it happens....

iMarkeh, you call the 135 a gimmicky evening route despite the fact it mirrors the daytime 235 in its entirety, the only difference being the 135 continues on along Orrell Lane to go and serve the Black Bull and Aintree Station. To say the 235 is "hardly used of a daytime" is just flat out inaccurate, most trips run at capacity many times, the Millers Bridge change makes little sense as nobody uses it of an evening but there is a smaller actual usage of a daytime.

I'm trying to make head and tail off the Southport changes. It appears that Birkdale village will be down to an hourly service. Surely that cannot be correct.

It looks a totally confusing mess. The 49 is the good, solid bread and butter of the Southport network. I can't believe they are messing around with it.

Southport's network is nice and simple. These plans make it complicated. If anything the route 46 should be increased in frequency to at least a 20 minute service again.

Also looking at other services throughout the areas ,there seems to be an obsession the introducing 40 minute frequencies. How bloody confusing for customers to work out.

I appreciate the need for cuts but surely make them simple. Saying that, to contradict myself, wouldn't it be better to promote the businesses more effectively and look for opportunities rather than cut?

If Transdev can make a success out our East Lancashire after Stagecoach couldn't surely in this region our incumbent operators should find that child's play. BTW even though they have problems in the Rossendale, Transdev are up to 120% of pre-covid patronage on the whole in majority of East Lancashire.

I feel promotion is the key to expansion, and providing an attractive product to entice new custom.

(27/06/2022 22:59)CX06 EBK Wrote: [ -> ]iMarkeh, you call the 135 a gimmicky evening route despite the fact it mirrors the daytime 235 in its entirety, the only difference being the 135 continues on along Orrell Lane to go and serve the Black Bull and Aintree Station. To say the 235 is "hardly used of a daytime" is just flat out inaccurate, most trips run at capacity many times, the Millers Bridge change makes little sense as nobody uses it of an evening but there is a smaller actual usage of a daytime.

That particular poster, thinks he's an expert at everything, but with the knowledge of nothing.

(27/06/2022 22:59)CX06 EBK Wrote: [ -> ]iMarkeh, you call the 135 a gimmicky evening route despite the fact it mirrors the daytime 235 in its entirety, the only difference being the 135 continues on along Orrell Lane to go and serve the Black Bull and Aintree Station. To say the 235 is "hardly used of a daytime" is just flat out inaccurate, most trips run at capacity many times, the Millers Bridge change makes little sense as nobody uses it of an evening but there is a smaller actual usage of a daytime.

135 serves the top of Fernhill Road & Menai Road which has zero core service. The link through to Aintree is just daft. There is no core route here which the 135 is standing in for, certainly not where there is any meaningful usage. Data for loadings shows that Pre Covid, monthly average was 704 passengers. Based off todays timetable (which is a reduced timetable), translates to just 4 people per trip (single trip, not round trip). What a colossal waste of money for 4 people. Likely cheaper to pay for them to have a taxi.

Also, I've never said "the 235" is hardly used, I said parts of it are hardly used. There is a difference.

I think its great that the 17 has been extended to serve Kirkby industrial estate as i work there at weekends and with not having a car its sometimes a struggle to get there but the extension of the 17 will give me another way to get there. I used to get the 133 up there but its no good anymore as only goes as far as Kirkby bus station in the mornings and doesnt run at all on Sundays. Wish theyd have changed the 133 as part of this review so that the morning 133 journeys go to Kirkby Admin like they used to

The 135 and 235 are the same route for the majority of it so it is not just a gimmicky evening service like you wrongly stated - I'm not interested in "core" service as what "core" service is going to operate via Fernhill Road & Menai Road anyway? The vast majority of the passengers on these services are older so expecting them to walk further distances to catch buses is just not going to happen. Also the link to Aintree would probably be more effective IF the 235 ran that way of a daytime - one of the biggest complaints from the daytime 235 is that it doesn't serve Orrell Lane or provide that connection, making that link more useful would be taking the 135 away from Aintree and terminating it at the hospital given the demographic of the route.

Obviously Merseytravel see a future in the route as it is one of the routes we were told was getting chopped altogether. Extending the 159 to Cavendish of an evening, might match the daytime route but there are STILL differences going forward. The evening service will serve Switch Island Retail Park as it does now but that section has no buses whatsoever of a daytime but has (and will remain with) the 52A and 159 going forward, make sense of that. Also the evening 159 between Bootle and Walton will largely mirror the 58A, with the only unique road served of an evening being Cavendish Drive and buses will be expected to layover in an area which has ASB issues in daylight, nevermind darkness.

The proposals off the Wirral are a mixture of good and bad.

The 16/17 should run via The Hospital grounds - and with the 41/42 now serving Arrowe Park, perhaps it should go back to the original Moreton - Clatterbridge route. The 2 spare buses could be used to run a service from Eastham to Heswall, keeping the same circular route the 16/17 have now.

The 41/42 extension to Arrowe Park is long overdue and a very welcome change.

The 106/107 is ridiculous now - I’ve called for Mount Road and Hamilton Road to be served by a bus route again but adding these to the 106/107 has going here there and everywhere and back on itself - why any they do what they did with Arriva and the 418 and re-route a commercial service - the 414 could easily be diverted via the old 10/10A route as the Mount Pleasant/Magazine Lane is served by the 432.

418 is being cut cut cut. 5 years ago they ran half hourly and had an evening Sunday service albeit as the 118/119. Cut to hourly. Only benefit of this is the times are going to be the same past each hour - something a 40 minute frequency does not allow (it’s a stupid frequency for a service)

492/495 similar position - why not get them extended either end to Arrowe Park and Woodside and this way Noctorum gains it’s lost link to Arrowe Park Hospital.

81 change via Greenbank Road makes sense. No bus stops on Black Horse Hill. Could do with one more departure from Arrowe Park at 1842.

91/91A are not due to change but the weekday and weekend services run via wildly difffernt routes and should be simplified. Why not run the service as the weekday one to Rose Mount, then loops back to Holm Lane and takes the 91A route to Holmlands Drive or something.

73 could serve Bebington Station and then via Kings Lane or Town Lane alternate hours instead of via Heath Road.

Heswall needs a link to Clatterbridge. That could be worked into a revised 16/17 perhaps.

I’m guessing a slight increase in provision is not on the table. Even just one or two buses. Perhaps a circular from Birkenhead to Prenton Dell, whose residents now have to go via Arrowe Park and Beechwood to get to Birkenhead. A new link here and there could really help plug the gaps.

The Eccleston (St. Helens) changes are a disaster for local people. Parts of the 37 route will be a good ½ mile from the nearest stop on the 38 or 35. May be OK for the young & fit, but it is a long walk for the many pensioners who use the bus, especially those returning from shopping trips to/from the town centre. In addition, the service from Kiln Lane to the town centre will be cut from 4 to 1 bus per hour. A good way to encourage more car trips.

And doubtless "they" will expect us to pay increased council tax to support their bus franchise system.

(29/06/2022 12:30)CX06 EBK Wrote: [ -> ]The 135 and 235 are the same route for the majority of it so it is not just a gimmicky evening service like you wrongly stated - I'm not interested in "core" service as what "core" service is going to operate via Fernhill Road & Menai Road anyway? The vast majority of the passengers on these services are older so expecting them to walk further distances to catch buses is just not going to happen.

If people want door to door, that mode of transport is called a taxi. Not a bus. There is no service there during the daytime, makes no sense sending a bus there at night when there is no proper service

(29/06/2022 12:30)CX06 EBK Wrote: [ -> ]Also the link to Aintree would probably be more effective IF the 235 ran that way of a daytime - one of the biggest complaints from the daytime 235 is that it doesn't serve Orrell Lane or provide that connection, making that link more useful would be taking the 135 away from Aintree and terminating it at the hospital given the demographic of the route.

You raise a good point on the 235 and it's certainly something that could be looked at. Costly though for it to happen as a basic extension. There would have to be a bit of a wider review done but yes, I agree the link to the hospital would be good.

(29/06/2022 12:30)CX06 EBK Wrote: [ -> ]Obviously Merseytravel see a future in the route as it is one of the routes we were told was getting chopped altogether.

Merseytravel see a future in a number of empty bus routes because it looks good on them. Doesn't mean it's a good use of taxpayers money. Especially when there are so many other cuts, the money could be much better spent elsewhere.

(29/06/2022 12:30)CX06 EBK Wrote: [ -> ]Extending the 159 to Cavendish of an evening, might match the daytime route but there are STILL differences going forward. The evening service will serve Switch Island Retail Park as it does now but that section has no buses whatsoever of a daytime but has (and will remain with) the 52A and 159 going forward, make sense of that. Also the evening 159 between Bootle and Walton will largely mirror the 58A, with the only unique road served of an evening being Cavendish Drive and buses will be expected to layover in an area which has ASB issues in daylight, nevermind darkness.

Switch Island is a silly one really. Should be all day, daytime only or nothing. Evening only services are not popular with passengers and complicate the bus network needlessly.
The evening layover is only 2 minutes and if it's that bad with ASB, drivers could wait up at Sainsburys then pull down at the right time. Also, if ASB is that bad, Merseytravel would reroute the 159 as they did with the 121 and 898/899 in Croxteth.