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(29/06/2022 22:52)Bevan Price Wrote: [ -> ]The Eccleston (St. Helens) changes are a disaster for local people. Parts of the 37 route will be a good ½ mile from the nearest stop on the 38 or 35. May be OK for the young & fit, but it is a long walk for the many pensioners who use the bus, especially those returning from shopping trips to/from the town centre. In addition, the service from Kiln Lane to the town centre will be cut from 4 to 1 bus per hour. A good way to encourage more car trips.

And doubtless "they" will expect us to pay increased council tax to support their bus franchise system.

Merseytravel do state that they would look at replacement provision for some parts of the 37 route. The nearest tendered route In the Daytime is the 4 journeys per day 153 which serves Norley Drive and already fairly tight for time with it interworking with the 152. It's a textbook on how a once quite well served area has fallen from grace.

Is the 37 pass heavy?

(30/06/2022 09:54)iMarkeh Wrote: [ -> ]Is the 37 pass heavy?

It is indeed

There's hardly any proposed timetables in the St Helens section - still only the 61 whilst other areas have quite a few.

The thing is iMarkeh I have seen your gripes here and elsewhere about housing estates not being served by buses and the same sort of thing would apply here with the 135/235 not existing. Fernhill Road in its entirety has no direct link to Bootle other than the 135/235 unless you live right by the junctions of Aintree Road & Linacre Lane otherwise it is a considerable walk to these places as Fernhill is a very long road. Southport road which runs parallel with Fernhill only has one bus service, the 56 - which doesn't serve Bootle town centre either, the 235 of a daytime is mainly passengers travelling into Bootle and then back home and secondarily travelling to Park Lane Medical Centre which is again unserved if these routes do not exist. Finally, the 235 is the direct daytime run of the 135 so the only road (other than the extension to Aintree) that is not served by the 235 is Menai Road - in this instance that makes no sense as the 2 roads the 235 does serve of a daytime are fully covered by the 52A so I don't see why it is that way other than Merseytravels backward logic.

As for Switch Island on the 159 I think the link should be there of a daytime as it does see some use from workers from the retail park of an evening so this could be expanded upon by having it there all day. As a side note the evening 159 operates via Northern Perimeter Road & Copy Lane (like the 55) but the daytime service operates the entirety of the Northern Perimeter Road, again a slight difference but hardly joined up thinking is it? As for the layover the drivers will have to take their layover away from Cavendish anyway as you are expected to have your engine off at all times up there and their a serial complainer but thats no use in the winter. We will see, the times themselves need revising as 20 minutes from Cavendish to Bootle is far too long.

(30/06/2022 09:57)T42 PVM Wrote: [ -> ]It is indeed

Probably better with a firm such as Hattons then. Arriva never seem to do very well on pass heavy routes. I think their costs are just too high for it. To cover Arriva driver wages needs a heck of a lot more passes than Hattons say and that's before you go into depot costs.

(30/06/2022 12:38)CX06 EBK Wrote: [ -> ]The thing is iMarkeh I have seen your gripes here and elsewhere about housing estates not being served by buses and the same sort of thing would apply here with the 135/235 not existing. Fernhill Road in its entirety has no direct link to Bootle other than the 135/235 unless you live right by the junctions of Aintree Road & Linacre Lane otherwise it is a considerable walk to these places as Fernhill is a very long road. Southport road which runs parallel with Fernhill only has one bus service, the 56 - which doesn't serve Bootle town centre either, the 235 of a daytime is mainly passengers travelling into Bootle and then back home and secondarily travelling to Park Lane Medical Centre which is again unserved if these routes do not exist. Finally, the 235 is the direct daytime run of the 135 so the only road (other than the extension to Aintree) that is not served by the 235 is Menai Road - in this instance that makes no sense as the 2 roads the 235 does serve of a daytime are fully covered by the 52A so I don't see why it is that way other than Merseytravels backward logic.

I ask for you to find me a quote where I asked for the 235 to be withdrawn. I said the 135 to be withdrawn yes but not the 235. I agreed with it being extended to cover Aintree Hospital. Hardly the sort of response I'd give if I thought it should be withdrawn.

The point that I have made consistently though is the 135 specifically is a stupid route as firstly, it isn't very good value for money when it carried 4 people per journey pre covid (no recent figures but based off the national trend, this is likely to be lower now) but if someone insists a bus must run, it should follow the services which are ran in the daytime (whether that be as per the current 235 or with the extended 235 as you suggested to Aintree Hospital). That's all. No issue with the 235.

(30/06/2022 12:38)CX06 EBK Wrote: [ -> ]As for Switch Island on the 159 I think the link should be there of a daytime as it does see some use from workers from the retail park of an evening so this could be expanded upon by having it there all day. As a side note the evening 159 operates via Northern Perimeter Road & Copy Lane (like the 55) but the daytime service operates the entirety of the Northern Perimeter Road, again a slight difference but hardly joined up thinking is it? As for the layover the drivers will have to take their layover away from Cavendish anyway as you are expected to have your engine off at all times up there and their a serial complainer but thats no use in the winter. We will see, the times themselves need revising as 20 minutes from Cavendish to Bootle is far too long.

Certainly not joined up thinking. To think the people who manage these tenders and could make these changes within weeks but CHOOSE not to, are the same people who would decide routes for franchising. God help us all.

(30/06/2022 09:54)iMarkeh Wrote: [ -> ]Is the 37 pass heavy?

The 37 as low passenger numbers too as the times I've done it barely picks up unless the 38 is late or missing.
The ones you do pick up are majority concession ticket holders as since the 38 started to serve kiln lane/bleakhill Road that took a lot of the passengers off the 37.

One response I've seen in the St Helens section has suggested a new route numbered 11 running as per 10A from Liverpool to Rainhill, then via Rainhill Stoops, Sutton Manor and Lea Green to St Helens (possibly resourced by taking 2 10A's per hour). This is a good idea as it would cover the reductions but also create new journey opportunities as well as serving both St Helens & Whiston Hospitals. Would be great if it happened but it's probably too radical for Arriva.

(01/07/2022 10:33)St Helens Rider Wrote: [ -> ]One response I've seen in the St Helens section has suggested a new route numbered 11 running as per 10A from Liverpool to Rainhill, then via Rainhill Stoops, Sutton Manor and Lea Green to St Helens (possibly resourced by taking 2 10A's per hour). This is a good idea as it would cover the reductions but also create new journey opportunities as well as serving both St Helens & Whiston Hospitals. Would be great if it happened but it's probably too radical for Arriva.

Don't forget 10A is a quality partnership route with Stagecoach so they would also have to agree

iMarkeh the truth is though the 135/235 have always had a strange disconnect between evening and daytime routes in terms of which way they go - they have never been the same across the both which is a theme when it comes to Merseytravels thinking. When it comes to Sefton introducing the 144 was a good idea as it is used, infact I would say from seeing it in person it does better than the 135 does these days, but adding the Millers Bridge section onto this route makes little sense as you do get people making the journey from Bootle Bus Station to parts of Marsh Lane. I know the 61 also serves this route but they are spaced almost half hour apart.

The revision to drop the Orrell Lane onwards to Aintree Station could work, I would still probably not have the Millers Bridge section though as of an evening it has no use what so ever - I would also number them the same if that were to happen. The real issue behind all this though is Merseytravel just aren't interested in listening to anything, we've asked for time changes on services etc for better running that still haven't come to pass.