Warrington's Own Buses

[Mayneway]

RE: WBT Network Warrington
Out of interest Katie why the sudden change of opinion regarding Network Warrington and thier compititors, Fairbrothers and GHA?
Back in August when NW were yet again hiking up fares you came accross as a very stern Network Warrington supporter infact in one post you stated that passengers couldn't reily on Fairbothers and GHA and would happily pay the higher NW fares over the cheaper Fairbrothers/GHA alternatives and that's why Fairbothers buses were normally empty yet now you seem to be saying otherwise?

Just why are people suddenly travelling with GHA and Fairbothers instead of Network Warrington in your opinion?

[RSTurbo50]

RE: WBT Network Warrington
GHA carrying busy loads on the 45....seriously? I must be working at another location then as the Network Warrington services that run through Stockton Heath are pretty full whereas the GHA service has a handful on at best!!!

[Katie]

RE: WBT Network Warrington

(29/10/2015 19:27)Mayneway Wrote:  Out of interest Katie why the sudden change of opinion regarding Network Warrington and thier compititors, Fairbrothers and GHA?
Back in August when NW were yet again hiking up fares you came accross as a very stern Network Warrington supporter infact in one post you stated that passengers couldn't reily on Fairbothers and GHA and would happily pay the higher NW fares over the cheaper Fairbrothers/GHA alternatives and that's why Fairbothers buses were normally empty yet now you seem to be saying otherwise?

Just why are people suddenly travelling with GHA and Fairbothers instead of Network Warrington in your opinion?

I cannot recall making the comments referred by you in August but no doubt you will let me know the exact date, time and precisely what was stated.

I cannot deny being a Network Warrington supporter. My husband having travelled with Warrington Corporation/Network Warrington since the 1950s and myself since 1970. My husband and his family even travelled to our wedding in a Warrington Corporation Bus!

In my opinion certainly one of the reasons why people are travelling with GHA and Fairbrothers instead of NW is because they are both timed to run two or three minutes in front of NW and many passengers simply get on the first bus which arrives. Obviously Fairbrothers in particular have cheaper fares but they, of course, only run on three services (possibly the three most lucrative) in Warrington. Perhaps you will kindly let me have your opinion why, in your words, people are "suddenly" travelling with GHA and Fairbrothers instead of NW.

[Katie]

RE: WBT Network Warrington

(29/10/2015 20:10)RSTurbo50 Wrote:  GHA carrying busy loads on the 45....seriously? I must be working at another location then as the Network Warrington services that run through Stockton Heath are pretty full whereas the GHA service has a handful on at best!!!

Obviously you and I are never going to agree on anything so perhaps it is as well that we simply agree to disagree.

My husband and I travel several times a week on the 46 to Northwich.

Since the timetable changes so that the bus is scheduled to leave on the hour it is perfectly correct to say that the number 46 does carry a good many passengers on quite a few of its outward journeys. Unfortunately by the time it arrives at the Cat and Lion there are usually very few passengers remaining on board and there have been a number of journeys recently when the bus has travelled from the Cat and Lion through Comberbach, Anderton, Barnton, Winnington and has not picked up a single additional passenger. Or at least no more than the amount you are suggesting GHA pick up on their 16/16A!

What I will say about Network Warrington's drivers on the Northwich route (and this may well include your goodself); is that they deserve a medal for their efforts in keeping to the scheduled timetable in the fact of what at present are horrendous roadworks and traffic problems; not only on Wilderspool Causeway/Morrisons/Stockton Heath (as of course do the other services at this point); but also what are somewhat long delays in both directions through Winnington. My husband and I having already passed on these comments to Phil Pearson.

[Mayneway]

RE: WBT Network Warrington

(09/08/2015 10:34)Katie Wrote:  I am a new member and hope that everyone will give me guidance where necessary. There appears to be a lot of Network Warrington bashing and I would like to give my views. I feel that Network Warrington deserve credit for not escalating the bus ware with GHA on the 45/46 routes. As is common knowledge NW are withdrawing the 45 service from the 1st September but will continue with the 46. There will be 13 journeys per day from Warrington (only 3 trips will runs five minutes before GHA and most of the others will leave the interchange on the hour which is 25 minutes after the GHA timetables). As far as I understand the 46 route will be the existing one but will also take in Lostock Gralam and Wincham which are part of the 45. I see it that from 1st September Network Warrington will be - Warrington/Stretton/Comberbach/Anderton/Northwich/Lostock Gralam/Wincham/Lostock Gralam/ Northwich/Anderton/Comberbach/Stretton/Warrington. In addition there will be an 8.30 a.m. service nod. 46 from Warrington which will terminate at Stretton returning from there at 8.58 a.m. I have found it extremely easy to contact Network Warrington simply by going to their website pressing contact and sending an email. I have always received a prompt and courteous reply. This is in contrast to a number of interest forwarded for instance to GHA since they entered Warrington to which unfortunately I have never received the courtesy of an acknowledgement never mind a reply. I have nothing whatsoever against Fairbrothers but, of course, as has already been pointed out they only run during peak hours. In fact on the Orford 21 service I think I am correct in saying they only run between the hours of 9.00 a.m. and 2.00 p.m. together with one trip from Warrington at 3.55 p.m. They do not run a Saturday, Sunday or Bank Holiday service on this route. I take it that the reason why is that it is simply uneconomical to do so - as pointed out by the NW driver - NW provide a service from 5.00 a.m. in a morning until 11.00 p.m. at night Monday to Saturday as well of course as a Sunday and Bank Holiday service - I suppose that one way that NW could keep their fares down is to withdraw many more services and whilst I agree that NW fares are no doubt a little on the steep side surely for all the reasons mentioned previously they are unable to sustain the cheap fares which Fairbrothers seem able to do by providing only services on limited busy routes. From my observations GHA do not appear to be carrying many passengers on the 16/16A routes and NW's problem to my mind on this route has been their timetable. This of course is being amended from the 1st September.

There's this one

[Mayneway]

RE: WBT Network Warrington

(09/08/2015 13:58)Katie Wrote:  "If" is a very small word with a big meaning and the fact is that at the moment there isn't more competition in the Warrington area. If you live in Warrington have you for instance tried travelling to and fro to work on Fairbrothers buses which only run between the hours of 9.00 a.m. and 4.00 p.m? iIn the case of the 21X the service is curtailed during the school term between 2.00 and 4.00 p.m. whilst the buses are seconded to the school run! It is all well and good having cheap fares but you have to be available to serve the public at all times not just at profitable peak periods. I could run and make a bus profitable if I only ran at peak periods every day.

And this one and several others.
I'm not having a go, just simply wondering why you have gone from defending Network Warrington's high prices and claiming that both GHA and Fairbothers vehicles run round empty compared to NW's full loads 3 months ago and now your claiming the exact opposite.

Are people voting with thier feet and using Fairbrothers and GHA other NW or are they simply jumping on the first bus that turns up?

[Valandil]

RE: WBT Network Warrington
On a completely different subject, I wonder whether the upcoming changes to the 16(A) will mean a redesign of running boards or if they will just keep the same patterns as before but just have some of the layover in a different place.
Ten minutes between a 16(A) and a 14/15 would be an awful lot ... and in my opinion it would create a better balance of layover if they used this opportunity to spread the layover to some of the Stockton Heath services which all currently only get 5 minutes between runs, e.g. doing something like this if it's possible:

6[10-05] -> 16A[13-43] -> 35o5i[50-55] -> 46[00-15] -> 15[23-05]
And separately:
6[40-35] -> 16A[43-13] -> 5o35i[20-25] -> 8o10Ci[30-32] -> 10Co8i[40-45] -> 15[53-35]

Here, XX[yy-zz] means service XX leaving town at yy past the hour and returning at zz past the hour.
10Co8i means a service 10C outbound followed by a service 8 inbound.

This would still be far from perfect as the 5 and 35 would still only have 5 minutes' layover before picking up the following 8/46, but would be an improvement.

Under this arrangement, the 3/4A and the 1[10-36] and 2[40-08] would be 'decoupled' from the 15/16A and the 14/16 would still only interwork with each other.

[RSTurbo50]

RE: WBT Network Warrington
Valandi I'm impressed :-)

[Katie]

RE: WBT Network Warrington

(30/10/2015 18:17)Valandil Wrote:  On a completely different subject, I wonder whether the upcoming changes to the 16(A) will mean a redesign of running boards or if they will just keep the same patterns as before but just have some of the layover in a different place.
Ten minutes between a 16(A) and a 14/15 would be an awful lot ... and in my opinion it would create a better balance of layover if they used this opportunity to spread the layover to some of the Stockton Heath services which all currently only get 5 minutes between runs, e.g. doing something like this if it's possible:

46[00-15] -> 15[23-05] -> 16A[13-43] -> 35o5i[50-55]
8o10Ci[30-32] -> 10Co8i[40-45] -> 15[53-35] -> 16A[43-13] -> 5o35i[20-25]
And separately:


Here, XX[yy-zz] means service XX leaving town at yy past the hour and returning at zz past the hour.
10Co8i means a service 10C outbound followed by a service 8 inbound.

This would still be far from perfect as the 5 and 35 would still only have 5 minutes' layover before picking up the following 8/46, but would be an improvement.

Under this arrangement, the 3/4A and the 1[10-36] and 2[40-08] would be 'decoupled' from the 15/16A and the 14/16 would still only interwork with each other.

This sounds pretty good to me but I must confess you have somewhat blinded me with science.

[Katie]

RE: WBT Network Warrington

(30/10/2015 00:06)Mayneway Wrote:  And this one and several others.
I'm not having a go, just simply wondering why you have gone from defending Network Warrington's high prices and claiming that both GHA and Fairbothers vehicles run round empty compared to NW's full loads 3 months ago and now your claiming the exact opposite.

Are people voting with thier feet and using Fairbrothers and GHA other NW or are they simply jumping on the first bus that turns up?

Good Evening Mayneway I hope you have had a good day and that I am not about to spoil it!

Many thanks for referring me to my own post. I categorically deny your allegations. You appear to have put your own interpretation on the post - a little like adding two and two together and coming up with five.

The only point which I would add is that since my August post GHA 16/16A service is definitely carrying more passengers particularly on the journey from Dallam to the Warrington Interchange which has been helped not in some small way by NW and Fairbrothers changing their timetables.

As previously stated, in both mine and my husband's opinion, a great many passengers simply get on the first bus which appears. We have based this opinion having monitored particularly the services 45/46, 16, 16A etc and all services via Stockton Heath village. We have carried this out over many weeks, various times of the day but not including Sundays.

For instance we have spent virtually a full day on several occasions travelling the Northwich route both via Network Warrington and on a number of occasions by car and have observed both Network Warrington and GHA buses on various parts of those routes.

So far as the Dallam service is concerned as you know there are around twelve journeys per hour between the three competing bus companies. By observing each bus as it arrives and departs from Warrington General Hospital where many passengers, during the daytime hours, travel to and from it is easy to see which buses they use.

Our conclusion has been that the vast majority of passengers from the hospital simply travel on the first first which arrives irrespective of the company concerned or the colour of the bus. This is not just referring to elderly people but to the travelling public as a whole.

Today in the hour between 11.00 a.m. and 12.00 noon very few passengers allowed the first bus to go without boarding it and waited for the next one. As you may well be aware Fairbrothers have, from this week, changed their timetable and now leave Dallam two minutes before NW and you do not have to be a Philadelphia lawyer to work out the reason why.

Fairbrothers fares may well be cheaper than NW but obviously they are making sure that they pick up as many passengers as possible by running in front of NW.

Of course from the 9th November NW will once more be amending theirs. Thus making it somewhat of a cat and mouse game. However, what it does do is to open up a gap for GHA coaches to collect more passengers on this route whilst the other two companies are chasing each other around. Perhaps you will kindly let me have your views as to the likely outcome of the "bus wars" on this route.

Again referring to Stockton Heath where NW, GHA and Halton Transport also serve the village - again most passengers simply get on the first bus which comes along to the Warrington Interchange. Anyone standing in the village who has an hour or two to spare during the day will I believe come to the same conclusion.

Finally, just to add that we will NOT be trawling the forum looking to find fault with any of your posts.

Enjoy your weekend.