Fifteen years since the sale of MTL to Arriva

[MPTE1955]

RE: Fifteen years since the sale of MTL to Arriva
Mtl also ordered the X-ANC darts as well, arriva decided to honour the order on takeover.

[MX12CFE]

RE: Fifteen years since the sale of MTL to Arriva

(12/03/2015 06:08)MPTE1955 Wrote:  Mtl also ordered the X-ANC darts as well, arriva decided to honour the order on takeover.

Were the X-OBN Alexander bodied darts an MTL order too or were they ordered by Arriva? Thanks.

[Phil]

RE: Fifteen years since the sale of MTL to Arriva
As far as I was led to believe, it was the Volvo's that MTL had ordered, which Arriva decided to honour.

Then again, why would MTL order Volvo products when they could only seem to afford cheaper Darts?

[Gillmoss 0324]

RE: Fifteen years since the sale of MTL to Arriva

(12/03/2015 06:08)MPTE1955 Wrote:  Mtl also ordered the X-ANC darts as well, arriva decided to honour the order on takeover.

(12/03/2015 07:17)MX12CFE Wrote:  Were the X-OBN Alexander bodied darts an MTL order too or were they ordered by Arriva? Thanks.

Not 100% sure but weren't these Dart's were an Arriva order rather than something MTL (chasis) had on order and Arriva kept on?

I do know/what other's have mentioned that the Wright Renown's (2701-30) were something MTL had ordered before selling to Arriva and got built to Arriva spec like the Renown's Arriva ordered for its Shires, Scotland West and North East subsidiaries. Not sure which route or garage MTL would've put them into or if they'd have been in the 6*** series but IIRC hasn't someone on the forum said they were going to be for the 79's/Speke and the Marshall's were just stop gaps for them?

(11/03/2015 22:39)Bevan Price Wrote:  But don't forget - it was MTL that ordered the Marshall Darts for use on the 79.....

Very true and I think more Marshall Dart's would've come in if MTL had at least survived in 2000/01. Marshall also would have snatched MTL's arm off for another big order although as shown they'd have not lasted anywhere near as long as Renowns and other 12m have from that period. I think generally even the big groups switched to Dart's for single deck work even if a 12m heavyweight would be much more appropriate for high frequency city work due to cost and profit. MTL could've gone with the 'super' chasis like Halton which would at +41 seats been a better bet for Liverpool routes although my hunch is they'd have been the more bog standard 10.8m ones. I also find it a mystery why the Wright Commander and the original Enviro 300 wasn't more popular with Arriva NW in the 2001-07 period. I know Mr BHind prefered single decks but these IMHO were much better and more suitable for the Liverpool network than Dart's and Cadet's ever were which usually had standing loads/couldn't cope on well used services and we didn't really see a change in prefernce until 2006 and more so in 2008 when Pulsar's started coming in.

Hopefully in Arriva at least now we're getting the right sized vehicles on the right routes in the region.

[Phil]

RE: Fifteen years since the sale of MTL to Arriva

(12/03/2015 10:13)Gillmoss 0324 Wrote:  Not 100% sure but weren't these Dart's were an Arriva order rather than something MTL (chasis) had on order and Arriva kept on?

I do know/what other's have mentioned that the Wright Renown's (2701-30) were something MTL had ordered before selling to Arriva and got built to Arriva spec like the Renown's Arriva ordered for its Shires, Scotland West and North East subsidiaries.

Yes I'm pretty certain both the Renowns and B6 Crusader 2's were MTL orders and Arriva ordered DAF and Dennis products.

(12/03/2015 10:13)Gillmoss 0324 Wrote:  Very true and I think more Marshall Dart's would've come in if MTL had at least survived in 2000/01. Marshall also would have snatched MTL's arm off for another big order although as shown they'd have not lasted anywhere near as long as Renowns and other 12m have from that period.

I doubt MTL would have ordered more Marshall Darts considering the backlash they got from the travelling public. I believe somebody even wrote in to the Echo to comment on how cramped and unsuitable these vehicles where.

(12/03/2015 10:13)Gillmoss 0324 Wrote:  Hopefully in Arriva at least now we're getting the right sized vehicles on the right routes in the region.

Yes it is great to see Arriva are finally beginning to invest in suitable sized vehicles for their long suffering passengers. I genuinely believe that the huge influx of Pulsars over the past few years was purely a stopgap in order to replace non-DDA compliant vehicles quickly and cheaply. This is how Arriva seemed to be working. For example, the Enviro400's that were purchased for the 60 route in 2009 were originally planned for the 79, but as the 79 already saw low floor vehicles allocated to it, the 60 was given preference to displace the Volly Ollys.

[Gillmoss 0324]

RE: Fifteen years since the sale of MTL to Arriva
Thanks for confirming Phil the B6's were a MTL order too. Again they got built to Arriva spec like similar B6's Arriva bought in 1999-2000 but would've been interesting to have seen these with MTL style interiors - particulalrly the revised one MTL London had from 1998.

[mathias]

RE: Fifteen years since the sale of MTL to Arriva

(12/03/2015 10:11)Phil Wrote:  As far as I was led to believe, it was the Volvo's that MTL had ordered, which Arriva decided to honour.

Then again, why would MTL order Volvo products when they could only seem to afford cheaper Darts?

Aye Phil, Arriva honoured the MTL order of B10BLE/Renowns.
MTL ordered 30 of them and they were intended to be MTL 6701 (X701 DBT) etc.

Arriva managed to change the interior colours (from red seats to blue) before they were built, even if they chose to keep the original MTL registration plates.

The 67xx series was a logical follow-on from the similar 6501-6623 B10B/Endurances.
As you know, Arriva chose to number them 2701-2730.

[mr t]

RE: Fifteen years since the sale of MTL to Arriva
The Cadets for the 80s were originally ordered for the 75s too supposedly last minute change of heart when they arrived

[Metroline1511]

RE: Fifteen years since the sale of MTL to Arriva

(11/03/2015 13:50)motormayhem1 Wrote:  If i remember correctly GO AHEAD wanted to buy GTL but stagecoach come in with an higher bid and GO AHEAD was intrested in buying ARRIVA when the sale to S.N.C.F collapsed but DB stepped in and took it before them so things could of been a lot different on merseyside.

Go-Ahead were front runners for GM at the end of 2000, but decided to concentrate on rail developments and expanding in Crawley, which Arriva deserted in early 2001. Go-Ahead also bid for GTL in 2005 but Stagecoach emerged as the winners instead.

[MTL0201]

RE: Fifteen years since the sale of MTL to Arriva

(25/02/2015 16:24)Barney Wrote:  I am not sure exactly when First took over the former Crosville operations (in the 1990s?), but when it did Crosville ceased to exist. Once downsizing has been adopted as the business plan, closure invariably follows and that has been the pattern in bus operations for the past 30 years. The only good thing to come out of the 1985 Act was it ensured that a private - as opposed to a state - national monopoly could not be achieved.

Crosville did not cease to exist until about 2003, PMT brought Rock Ferry & Chester depots but kept the Crosville name for buses operating from there, after Firstgroup brought PMT, Firstgroup kept the Crosville name until about 2003, when Redrider & Crosville merged to become First Wirral & Chester.