Talks of Liverpools bus network being "council" run

[wirralbus]

RE: Talks of Liverpools bus network being "council" run
I mean if one or both of the big operators there took a view that they werent going to go forward as an operator of franchised services , there would be a mad scramble to cover services , it wont happen because im sure there would be some sort of financial incentive to make the system work that they do not get at the moment .

Watch this space the Labour Party may not get in at the next general election .

Another question how long after the election if the labour party get into power will this take place though , we all know what happened in 1997 they got in by landslide and nothing changed overnight .

[Valandil]

RE: Talks of Liverpools bus network being "council" run
I wonder how routes extending to places outside the Merseytravel zone would be affected by these plans.

[Barney]

RE: Talks of Liverpools bus network being "council" run

(01/11/2014 04:50)Valandil Wrote:  I wonder how routes extending to places outside the Merseytravel zone would be affected by these plans.

IF this proposal ever comes about - and I for one hope it does - I would like to think that cross-border routes (Merseyside/Cheshire and Lancashire) would be negotiated and agreed between the two relevant authorities.

For anyone on this forum to have any real memory of bus operations before the setting up of the MPTE, they would now be close to being eligible for a Merseytravel bus pass. It therefore might surprise some people to learn that before the establishment of the PTE, on the Wirral Birkenhead and Wallasey Corporations had clearly defined operating areas and did not cross into each others area. Travelling from Bebington to New Brighton necessitated using buses operated by two different corporations and paying two lots of fares.

In Liverpool, Ribble services that operated through Bootle from Crosby, Thornton and Southport were not allowed to pick up passengers after the stop at North Park and were not allowed to let passengers from Liverpool alight until North Park. Consequently, passengers could only ever use the joint services(the 50s services) but not the L or S services.

Also, in those days the 10 - one of the busiest routes in Liverpool - terminated at Prescot and if a passenger wanted to continue on to St Helens they had to board a St Helens Corporation vehicle.

With the establishment of MPTE in 1970 and its enlargement in 1974 these issues were resolved. I am sure that should this proposal to set up a franchising system ever happen cross-border services would easily be accommodated.

[rod_259]

RE: Talks of Liverpools bus network being "council" run
Booze ups and breweries quickly spring to mind when politicians start running commercial businesses. Also if there is not enough financial incentive, then will the quality of services and buses fall? I know London has worked OK but only with the support if the congestion charge. Maybe supporters of this policy think that is a price with paying. Whilst not perfect, look at virtual absence if cross city services in Manchester for example, the system generally works and the quality of the buses themselves has certainly improved dramatically since privatisation.

[wirralbus]

RE: Talks of Liverpools bus network being "council" run
There will always be pros and cons in both deregulation and regulation of services , its trying to get a happy balance between them.

We have heard the Labour Party's proposals for public transport , i would be interested to hear the Conservative viewpoint now .

[lcm453]

RE: Talks of Liverpools bus network being "council" run
This topic is certainly provoking debate. The big companies are bound to rail against any form of re-regulation as it would mean them having to do what they're told by elected members (who themselves have competing agendas).

The Stagecoach view is, quite frankly, pathetic.

1. What will they do with their fleet if they pull out of a metropolitan area?
2. The same goes for their real estate?
3. The controlling authority or another operator(s) will fill most gaps left by such a withdrawal.
4. Overheads will still be there to some degree but revenue won't.
5. If the legislation is changed by a new government after the general election will Stagecoach stop running else where as well?

Of course not.

The majority of commercial bus services can only continue to operate thanks to the huge amounts of money paid to them for the concessionary pass scheme. Without this, services would not cover operating costs by cash fares alone and given that even in a re-regulated environment non pass holders would still be paying fares.

S not such huge costs would necessarily follow.

[mathias]

RE: Talks of Liverpools bus network being "council" run
I reckon this idea is more Pie-In-The-Sky nonsense from Merseytravel.

The fact is Stagecoach Group and Deutsche Bahn (Arriva) have got too much power over the bus network anyway.
And (as we all know) big business controls governments rather than the other way round.

Still its a nice idea, in theory at least.
Fares would be cheaper, and train times would link-up with bus times so the public transport network would be more integrated.
The problem of congestion could be addressed by putting in more bus lanes, so that journey times would be faster and more efficient.

OOPS SORRY! DID I MENTION BUS LANES??
Sorry 'bout that!
I forgot that Mayor Anderson is always right and everybody else is always wrong!

[St Helens Rider]

RE: Talks of Liverpools bus network being "council" run

(01/11/2014 10:16)Barney Wrote:  IF this proposal ever comes about - and I for one hope it does - I would like to think that cross-border routes (Merseyside/Cheshire and Lancashire) would be negotiated and agreed between the two relevant authorities.

For anyone on this forum to have any real memory of bus operations before the setting up of the MPTE, they would now be close to being eligible for a Merseytravel bus pass. It therefore might surprise some people to learn that before the establishment of the PTE, on the Wirral Birkenhead and Wallasey Corporations had clearly defined operating areas and did not cross into each others area. Travelling from Bebington to New Brighton necessitated using buses operated by two different corporations and paying two lots of fares.

In Liverpool, Ribble services that operated through Bootle from Crosby, Thornton and Southport were not allowed to pick up passengers after the stop at North Park and were not allowed to let passengers from Liverpool alight until North Park. Consequently, passengers could only ever use the joint services(the 50s services) but not the L or S services.

Also, in those days the 10 - one of the busiest routes in Liverpool - terminated at Prescot and if a passenger wanted to continue on to St Helens they had to board a St Helens Corporation vehicle.

With the establishment of MPTE in 1970 and its enlargement in 1974 these issues were resolved. I am sure that should this proposal to set up a franchising system ever happen cross-border services would easily be accommodated.

The arrangements for the 39 & 320 in PTE days were that inbound passengers weren't picked up after Knotty Ash and outbound passengers could not alight prior to that point. Certainly meant a faster overall journey time between St Helens and Liverpool to what we have now. Also there were more routes serving the corridor.

[CX06 EBK (Administrator)]

RE: Talks of Liverpools bus network being "council" run
I don't think fares would be cheaper at all and what would happen if cuts needed to be made? As many areas of Merseyside know all to well the Council are trying their best at the moment to cut even more things such as Libraries and sell off green land in the pursuit of money over what the people of the area want. Although some of us don't remember what it was like under MPTE and prior to that, thinking it would be anything near the same is very short sighted. The council and Merseytravel are very different nowadays, you only have to see how badly the latter handles certain contracts and have let operators miss out large chunks of services for whatever reason, shows the lack of care they have.

[SNL 824]

RE: Talks of Liverpools bus network being "council" run

(01/11/2014 10:16)Barney Wrote:  IF this proposal ever comes about - and I for one hope it does - I would like to think that cross-border routes (Merseyside/Cheshire and Lancashire) would be negotiated and agreed between the two relevant authorities.

For anyone on this forum to have any real memory of bus operations before the setting up of the MPTE, they would now be close to being eligible for a Merseytravel bus pass. It therefore might surprise some people to learn that before the establishment of the PTE, on the Wirral Birkenhead and Wallasey Corporations had clearly defined operating areas and did not cross into each others area. Travelling from Bebington to New Brighton necessitated using buses operated by two different corporations and paying two lots of fares.

In Liverpool, Ribble services that operated through Bootle from Crosby, Thornton and Southport were not allowed to pick up passengers after the stop at North Park and were not allowed to let passengers from Liverpool alight until North Park. Consequently, passengers could only ever use the joint services(the 50s services) but not the L or S services.

Also, in those days the 10 - one of the busiest routes in Liverpool - terminated at Prescot and if a passenger wanted to continue on to St Helens they had to board a St Helens Corporation vehicle.

With the establishment of MPTE in 1970 and its enlargement in 1974 these issues were resolved. I am sure that should this proposal to set up a franchising system ever happen cross-border services would easily be accommodated.

I'm still a few years short of a bus pass - but not too many. There were Lancashire United routes to St helens - but that was in PTE days. I used them to go and ride on the ex St helens and Birkenhead PD2s that were still in service in the town.

On the Wirral though there were some joint services between Birkenhead and Wallasey. The one that springs to mind was the 11 from New Brighton to The Wiend in Tranmere. As a Birkenhead boy it was always a treat to get a wallasey vehicle on the route as they were older and more interesting than most of the Birkenhead fleet and also had much more luxurious interiors. And for those of you used to today's buses - yes you could use that word in respect to Wallasey Corp buses.