Manchester bus franchising

[CUL 73V]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(24/06/2023 14:30)GMBuses North Wrote:  Surely faults with *new* vehicles are the issue of the builder not the operator?! Therefore, nothing to do with franchising.

The blame lies with the organisation who ordered these completely unproven buses, which are currently not fit for purpose. They knew this was the case, but they ordered them anyway. The new trains are barely any better. This is the same organisation who will be responsible for running a hypothetical franchised bus network in LCR.

If an organisation can't do something as simple as to procure stock which is fit for purpose, then they've no business introducing and maintaining a franchised bus network.

[peter]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(24/06/2023 08:11)Michael Wrote:  I take it transdev have won nothing....where does this leave there Rochdale depot...surely they can't keep a depot just for the 464 unless they expect to win some schools

The 464 is already run out of Blackburn and the Rossendale Rovers/Irwell Line out of Burnley so very unlikely the depot in Rochdale will be kept - the entire Rosso brand could well be folded with the above mentioned services operated by Blackburn or Burnley officially.

[Steve440]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(25/06/2023 22:14)peter Wrote:  The 464 is already run out of Blackburn and the Rossendale Rovers/Irwell Line out of Burnley so very unlikely the depot in Rochdale will be kept - the entire Rosso brand could well be folded with the above mentioned services operated by Blackburn or Burnley officially.

I would imagine that the Rosso brand may be kept for the Rossendale local routes.

[Nwales Bus]

RE: Manchester bus franchising
Diamond have announced on their website that they will be operating two services in the Oldham area

Quote:The contract involves the operation of two local bus services in the Oldham area, requiring six vehicles and approximately 15 colleagues. The services will operate from Diamond’s existing depot in Eccles.

[Mrboo]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(24/06/2023 15:25)CUL 73V Wrote:  The blame lies with the organisation who ordered these completely unproven buses, which are currently not fit for purpose. They knew this was the case, but they ordered them anyway. The new trains are barely any better. This is the same organisation who will be responsible for running a hypothetical franchised bus network in LCR

If an organisation can't do something as simple as to procure stock which is fit for purpose, then they've no business introducing and maintaining a franchised bus network.

completely unproven buses how so. the tech is proven and the buses are proven. you can get issues with staff getting used to them or maybe buses need their bugs sorted. Most new trains have issues.
Even dirty diesel sometimes gets recalled.

I had a number of buses from First Bristol on rail that needed new batteries as someone did not do the maths.
and it was found the voltage drop was too high for the bus to start from the cab. I had to start buses from the back of the bus or call fitters out to Cardiff.

[CUL 73V]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(28/06/2023 19:05)Mrboo Wrote:  completely unproven buses how so. the tech is proven and the buses are proven. you can get issues with staff getting used to them or maybe buses need their bugs sorted. Most new trains have issues.
Even dirty diesel sometimes gets recalled.

I had a number of buses from First Bristol on rail that needed new batteries as someone did not do the maths.
and it was found the voltage drop was too high for the bus to start from the cab. I had to start buses from the back of the bus or call fitters out to Cardiff.

The Enviro400 FCEV is a brand new product which nobody else has ordered.

At the very least, LCR should have tested a demonstrator IN SERVICE before ordering them.

[Mrboo]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(28/06/2023 19:24)CUL 73V Wrote:  The Enviro400 FCEV is a brand new product which nobody else has ordered.

At the very least, LCR should have tested a demonstrator IN SERVICE before ordering them.

Proven Solutions but maybe not in this package.

https://www.ballard.com/markets/transit-bus
https://voith.com/corp-en/drives-transmi...ystem.html
and a Enviro 400 is proven

So they will just need time to get the right things like software needs tinkering with. I have known many new coaches have to be sent back due to issues that are part of the aftersales as things break in service. you can test for months but still have issues as it easy to make a demo bus work.

[1466]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(24/06/2023 15:25)CUL 73V Wrote:  The blame lies with the organisation who ordered these completely unproven buses, which are currently not fit for purpose. They knew this was the case, but they ordered them anyway. The new trains are barely any better. This is the same organisation who will be responsible for running a hypothetical franchised bus network in LCR.

If an organisation can't do something as simple as to procure stock which is fit for purpose, then they've no business introducing and maintaining a franchised bus network.

Wallasey Corporation placed into service the first Leyland Atlantean in 1958, it took many years for Leyland to perfect the Atlantean into the reliable vehicle it became, likewise when the 507 and 508 units where introduced, a whole host of problems affected reliability most were resolved.

Merseyside has often been the pioneers when it comes to technology in public transport, long may it continue

[CUL 73V]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(29/06/2023 13:41)Mrboo Wrote:  Proven Solutions but maybe not in this package.

https://www.ballard.com/markets/transit-bus
https://voith.com/corp-en/drives-transmi...ystem.html
and a Enviro 400 is proven

So they will just need time to get the right things like software needs tinkering with. I have known many new coaches have to be sent back due to issues that are part of the aftersales as things break in service. you can test for months but still have issues as it easy to make a demo bus work.

You know full well what I meant, don't nitpick. It is very poor business practice to order a brand new vehicle type this complex, which nobody else has used in service, without testing it first. The fact these very expensive buses won't be ready for service for at least three months is completely unacceptable. I've had a look around a couple of them, I was far from impressed.

(29/06/2023 20:56)1466 Wrote:  Wallasey Corporation placed into service the first Leyland Atlantean in 1958, it took many years for Leyland to perfect the Atlantean into the reliable vehicle it became, likewise when the 507 and 508 units where introduced, a whole host of problems affected reliability most were resolved.

Merseyside has often been the pioneers when it comes to technology in public transport, long may it continue

The Atlanteans, Neoplans were far less complex than the Enviro400 FCEV.

[Mrboo]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(29/06/2023 22:04)CUL 73V Wrote:  You know full well what I meant, don't nitpick. It is very poor business practice to order a brand new vehicle type this complex, which nobody else has used in service, without testing it first. The fact these very expensive buses won't be ready for service for at least three months is completely unacceptable. I've had a look around a couple of them, I was far from impressed.


The Atlanteans, Neoplans were far less complex than the Enviro400 FCEV.

There always going to be the first buyer and most likely there was a good deal put on the table for being the first to order. 3 months is not really a big deal as they will just hire in buses if needs be and the warranty will pay for it. The LTs had issues in London when new. Metrobus in Crawley have just started to use their 20 Wright Hydroliner fleet and am sure they will have bugs in their buses.