Manchester bus franchising

[Steve440]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(03/02/2023 15:39)Mayneway Wrote:  We had a Q&A with Burnham and TFGM chiefs last year. Their plan was/is sit back and do nothing for 5 years once it’s kicked in, although there’s no promise any withdrawn routes will make a come back. No plans for more cross city services and no plans to create more park and ride sites into the city centre.

Then what is the point of all this?

[NorthernCounties]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(04/02/2023 09:20)Steve440 Wrote:  Then what is the point of all this?

The point is TfGM want control back. Its been a very bad secret that they've wanted control back since the buses were taken away from them.

There's also burnhams political ambition which accounts for the numerous lies he's promised about franchising

[knutstransport]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(04/02/2023 09:20)Steve440 Wrote:  Then what is the point of all this?

Isn't a consistent network that doesn't change every few weeks one of the aims?

[Mayneway]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(04/02/2023 09:20)Steve440 Wrote:  Then what is the point of all this?

It’s a power game. They want to take back control, but can’t go back to a regulated system so this is the next best thing but will cost them via tax payers pockets a hell of a lot of money.

You will see from the comments above from certain members, who believe the system in Manchester is broken and will suddenly get better under public control - the reality is it will get worse.

The whole thing has been over shadowed by fare caps offering punters a cheaper deal but once the new system is up and running it will be a mirror image of the tram system with expensive fares while they try and recoup some of the costs of it all.

[Barney]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(04/02/2023 10:21)Mayneway Wrote:  It’s a power game. They want to take back control, but can’t go back to a regulated system so this is the next best thing but will cost them via tax payers pockets a hell of a lot of money.

You will see from the comments above from certain members, who believe the system in Manchester is broken and will suddenly get better under public control - the reality is it will get worse.

The whole thing has been over shadowed by fare caps offering punters a cheaper deal but once the new system is up and running it will be a mirror image of the tram system with expensive fares while they try and recoup some of the costs of it all.

Once more you are expressing opinions as facts. A franchise system IS a regulated system and it has only come about by a Conservative Government - Labour politicians had no role in this change - that recognised that deregulation hasn't worked.

What would you define as "a hell of a lot of money"?

The recent £2 fare cap wasn't even thought of twelve months ago let alone when the Buses Services Act 2017 was passed that has enabled the franchising process to begin.

Also, need to add "I believe" before your claim "...it will be a mirror image of the tram system with expensive fares".

I am not naïve to believe that everything will be perfect with the new system, especially in the first few years, but it needs to be given time. After all, the deregulated system has had almost forty years to prove itself and most people consider it to have failed in its aims.

[KXW212]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(03/02/2023 10:29)Barney Wrote:  You are now conflating two issues: franchising and bus priority schemes.

Several years ago, the good people of Manchester voted against congestion charging which would have mitigated against increasing car usage but is now considering a CAZ within the the TfGM area. What do you think of this?

I have read that TfGM has already drawn up plans for extensive bus lanes and other bus priorities as soon as franchising is completed. Will this help change your view?

Regarding the decision by "St Andy" to adopt an "insipid yellow", I can only conclude that you would be amore amenable to the whole franchising debate if any other livery had been chosen which, to me, makes no sense. After all, when Arriva and Stagecoach rebranded their respective corporate images, it didn't make the buses run more efficiently.

The two are very much linked. Franchising is being sold as an 'improvement'. Sitting in the same traffic being delayed certainly isn't. One must accompany the other. The CAZ rejection was the right decision if it takes in the whole of GM. It should have applied to the city centre and Town Centres only. It may well be that there are plans for some bus priority, but there is no detail and it's years away, if it happens at all. The livery is indeed insipid, even Burnham's best mate on Merseyside has at least developed a scheme that is bright and welcoming, whatever your views are, that does encourage use.

The whole thing is driven by political dogma and soundbites, and ill thought out by amateurs. It's interesting to see how much the London model is admired, but conveniently forgotten what a total financial basket case TfL has become (an inconvenient truth). That will be the inevitable result for GM. But, by that time Burnham will be chasing further political ambitions and be long gone. A true 'seagull manager'.

[MTL0201]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(05/02/2023 11:52)KXW212 Wrote:  The two are very much linked. Franchising is being sold as an 'improvement'. Sitting in the same traffic being delayed certainly isn't. One must accompany the other. The CAZ rejection was the right decision if it takes in the whole of GM. It should have applied to the city centre and Town Centres only. It may well be that there are plans for some bus priority, but there is no detail and it's years away, if it happens at all. The livery is indeed insipid, even Burnham's best mate on Merseyside has at least developed a scheme that is bright and welcoming, whatever your views are, that does encourage use.

The whole thing is driven by political dogma and soundbites, and ill thought out by amateurs. It's interesting to see how much the London model is admired, but conveniently forgotten what a total financial basket case TfL has become (an inconvenient truth). That will be the inevitable result for GM. But, by that time Burnham will be chasing further political ambitions and be long gone. A true 'seagull manager'.

Yes, TFL often propose cutting & withdrawing routes, & often go ahead with the proposals, even if a majority object to such plans, through the consultations, which are often a sham.

In fact one such route 271 has been withdrawn from today, in spite of many objections to the withdrawal of the route, passengers who used the 271 through Holloway & Highbury now have to use 2 separate routes, this is one of many proposals, so careful what you whish for.

[knutstransport]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(05/02/2023 11:52)KXW212 Wrote:  It should have applied to the city centre and Town Centres only.

Every town centre? Wouldn't that have just costed more to implement and then ended up affecting almost as many road users?

Quote:The livery is indeed insipid

The reality is you're never going to get a livery that everyone likes. A lot of bus enthusiasts wanted a return of orange but in 2023 dusky orange is an archaic choice for a vehicle livery.

[Mrboo]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(05/02/2023 12:13)MTL0201 Wrote:  Yes, TFL often propose cutting & withdrawing routes, & often go ahead with the proposals, even if a majority object to such plans, through the consultations, which are often a sham.

In fact one such route 271 has been withdrawn from today, in spite of many objections to the withdrawal of the route, passengers who used the 271 through Holloway & Highbury now have to use 2 separate routes, this is one of many proposals, so careful what you whish for.

That the Danger of hop type of fares as. So long as you can get on every bus within the hour.
There is no issue with cutting routes as no one is unable to travel. just like the 163 most of the trips can be made with a single change of bus. How many people are not within 1 mile of a bus route? May not be going the way you want it but there are always options once on a network of routes.
I can think of a number of routes that could be removed. As you feed into tram or train not run along side

[Mayneway]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(05/02/2023 09:14)Barney Wrote:  Once more you are expressing opinions as facts. A franchise system IS a regulated system and it has only come about by a Conservative Government - Labour politicians had no role in this change - that recognised that deregulation hasn't worked.

What would you define as "a hell of a lot of money"?

The recent £2 fare cap wasn't even thought of twelve months ago let alone when the Buses Services Act 2017 was passed that has enabled the franchising process to begin.

Also, need to add "I believe" before your claim "...it will be a mirror image of the tram system with expensive fares".

I am not naïve to believe that everything will be perfect with the new system, especially in the first few years, but it needs to be given time. After all, the deregulated system has had almost forty years to prove itself and most people consider it to have failed in its aims.

Nothing to do with the tories, Andy Burnham has pushed for this and last time I looked he is a labour metro mayor.

He’s also mislead the pubic saying he wants to take away the private companies putting profit before services - newsflash he’s still got to rely on the private companies putting in realistic bids to run the work and the bids have to be profitable otherwise they wouldn’t bother.
He’s also stated he wants a ‘London’ style system, please tell me how much TFL are in debt??