Concessionary Bus Pass reform

[EBG 758]

RE: Concessionary Bus Pass reform
One of the principal concepts of providing free travel for the seniors is that it encourages them to get out and about. This in turn keeps them healthier in body and mind thereby reducing the demands placed on NHS services. As a side benefit, money saved on fares can be used to help the local economy, for example meeting friends for a coffee - this list is endless. The current law states that bus operators should be no better or worse off under this scheme. Undoubtedly Austerity cuts to local authorities and reduced government subsidies for the extended use to all of England has hit operators but the answer lies with providing bus companies with extra funding or total re-regulation of bus services.

[Barney]

RE: Concessionary Bus Pass reform

(31/07/2019 09:36)EBG 758 Wrote:  One of the principal concepts of providing free travel for the seniors is that it encourages them to get out and about. This in turn keeps them healthier in body and mind thereby reducing the demands placed on NHS services. As a side benefit, money saved on fares can be used to help the local economy, for example meeting friends for a coffee - this list is endless. The current law states that bus operators should be no better or worse off under this scheme. Undoubtedly Austerity cuts to local authorities and reduced government subsidies for the extended use to all of England has hit operators but the answer lies with providing bus companies with extra funding or total re-regulation of bus services.

I was waiting for someone else to post a response such as this before I added my view. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with providing concessionary travel for the elderly or seriously infirm. To suggest that there is tantamount to saying that these same citizens should not be given free healthcare by the NHS because they are the biggest drain on the NHS's resources.

If the same level of funding that TfL - a regulated market - is given to provide concessionary travel and bus services in general was made available by central government to the whole of the UK we wouldn't be having this discussion now. Also, despite what Stagecoach management might say publicly, without the concessionary travel passes many commercial bus services within Merseyside would be reduced or even withdrawn as these same passengers would simply be unable to afford to pay to use them.

[L401CJF]

RE: Concessionary Bus Pass reform

(31/07/2019 03:33)Mayneway Wrote:  The issue of disabled passes has really shocked me. When the company I work for got ticketer machines it actually comes up and tells the driver what pass they scanned. The amount of people who use disabled passes and work and look completely able bodied is surprising. I was told that anyone can go to their GP, convince the GP they have a problem with drink or drugs, get put on a long waiting list for counciling and immediately be entitled to a bus pass.

As a driver myself, I understand that there are those with hidden disabilities - some people often run up to the bus and produce a disabled pass, obviously there are various hidden disabilities you need to keep in mind - however disabled or not, if they are earning a wage - a number of the regulars are full time too, I see no reason why anybody else should fund free travel for them when they are making money themselves.

The amount of people who produce disabled passes and stink of cannabis, or are alcoholics, and then those who jump off and go straight to the bookie.. but lets not get started on those!

Not just the concession scheme, but the whole industry in general needs a complete reform - it doesn't work. At the moment we are in a position (in merseyside at least) that fare evasion for over 18s using child tickets is ridiculous and not enforced whatsoever - you get people in their 40s asking for mytickets. We have any slightly useful bus service taken away, because nobody can afford to fund it. We have an age where the majority of passengers are either using child tickets, or concession passes so there is very little revenue involved. We have a city region that claims to promote bus travel but is currently doing everything it can to destroy bus travel across the city centre from next year , and to top it off, bus companies which dont care about passengers in the slightest - skipping normal service because rails have priority as it makes more money, not adjusting timetables to accomodate the city centre roadwork chaos so running a very messy service and expecting the drivers to make do and mend. The rest is all about impressing shareholders, not losing mileage, and cutting costs everywhere else.

[L401CJF]

RE: Concessionary Bus Pass reform
On the subject of bringing up the OAP pass age - I see no reason why it shouldn't be brought up in line with the standard retirement age. If the retirement age is slowly being brought up (probably about 90 by the time half of us get there!) and most people under that age are still in employment, then I see no reason why the age for pass eligibility shouldnt be raised either. The way I see it if somebody is working for a living and taking home pay, then why should the taxpayer fund free travel for them in this age where there is an empty pot of money and everything is being cut back.

[Walton 46]

RE: Concessionary Bus Pass reform
Another issue I've noticed with passes is that depending on where about in the country you live, your pass may carry different perks compared to other places. As an example, passes issued by Merseytravel can be used on the buses, Merseyrail and Mersey Ferries. And London of course has the Freedom Pass which can be used on the buses, Underground and Overground amongst other things

[Barney]

RE: Concessionary Bus Pass reform

(31/07/2019 12:05)L401CJF Wrote:  On the subject of bringing up the OAP pass age - I see no reason why it shouldn't be brought up in line with the standard retirement age. If the retirement age is slowly being brought up (probably about 90 by the time half of us get there!) and most people under that age are still in employment, then I see no reason why the age for pass eligibility shouldn't be raised either. The way I see it if somebody is working for a living and taking home pay, then why should the taxpayer fund free travel for them in this age where there is an empty pot of money and everything is being cut back.

When the national bus pass was introduced by a Labour government in 2008 eligibility was at the age of 60 but in most areas of England this has now been raised to state pensionable age and Merseyside is one of the few areas that still issue passes at 60.

Within London, passes are still issued at 60 and can be used on the extensive night bus network, the Tube and Overground lines 24 hours a day. I agree that it does seem iniquitous that a 60-year-old earning a huge salary in London should be eligible for a bus pass whilst a 64-year-old living in Ormskirk or Skelmersdale on a meagre income should have to pay to get to a hospital appointment.

Also, it might surprise some to learn that in Northern Ireland, the bus pass is still issued at 60 and entitles the pass holder to travel throughout the island of Ireland. As he has gone on record as having an interest in all things buses, I wonder if our new PM has has made this a red line when discussing the Brexit Backstop with the Taoiseach?

Seriously though, regional differences in eligibility - and funding - is the central issue here.

[iMarkeh]

RE: Concessionary Bus Pass reform

(31/07/2019 11:50)L401CJF Wrote:  As a driver myself, I understand that there are those with hidden disabilities - some people often run up to the bus and produce a disabled pass, obviously there are various hidden disabilities you need to keep in mind - however disabled or not, if they are earning a wage - a number of the regulars are full time too, I see no reason why anybody else should fund free travel for them when they are making money themselves.

The amount of people who produce disabled passes and stink of cannabis, or are alcoholics, and then those who jump off and go straight to the bookie.. but lets not get started on those!

Not just the concession scheme, but the whole industry in general needs a complete reform - it doesn't work. At the moment we are in a position (in merseyside at least) that fare evasion for over 18s using child tickets is ridiculous and not enforced whatsoever - you get people in their 40s asking for mytickets.

I 100% think there should be a fine in place for misusing a concessionary pass. I would put money on the fact there is concessionary passes being used by those who aren't the named person on the pass (Hidden disabilities do exist but those who want to abuse the system will know how to do so by now). Most drivers don't check the pass to check the user matches the details on the pass (which I appreciate is not a drivers job but it's an observation) so people think they can get away with it easier.

The MyTicket thing is laughable. While I wouldn't want to see an mandatory ID based system like TFGM brought in, I can see it being necessary. Profits will go up by about 30%.

[Mayneway]

RE: Concessionary Bus Pass reform

(31/07/2019 21:03)iMarkeh Wrote:  I 100% think there should be a fine in place for misusing a concessionary pass. I would put money on the fact there is concessionary passes being used by those who aren't the named person on the pass (Hidden disabilities do exist but those who want to abuse the system will know how to do so by now). Most drivers don't check the pass to check the user matches the details on the pass (which I appreciate is not a drivers job but it's an observation) so people think they can get away with it easier.

The MyTicket thing is laughable. While I wouldn't want to see an mandatory ID based system like TFGM brought in, I can see it being necessary. Profits will go up by about 30%.

The TFGM Igo ID card is laughable though. Lad gets on my bus and try’s to use a junior ticket. I ask him if he’s got his Igo card, no it’s at home he says. I’ll have to charge you adult fare, ive got no money and you have a duty of care towards me...... like I said pointless.

[LJ51 DDA]

RE: Concessionary Bus Pass reform

(30/07/2019 03:58)Mayneway Wrote:  We need to do away with it altogether. When growing up in the early 90’s I can remember my gran paying a concessionary fare on the bus and paying the same fare for me (half adult fare). It worked fine.

Yes we can argue that these people have paid into the pot so should get a free pass, but we need to accept that this system has played a very big part in destroying some of our bus networks.

This i will wholly standby, said for years and years it should not be a thing at all, the only people who deserve one are those who are physically disabled in my honest opinion, i myself qualify for one with hidden disabilities however i am FULLY capable of using the bus and paying my way and refused to accept it.

Two of the main reasons i refused it 1. i am fully able to use a bus even though being classed as disabled and 2. i want my bus to stay. i'd rather give Arriva £4.50 than whatever a pass gives these days.

Although its slightly different for me now as i drive i still use my bus simply to keep it running even if its little, its a difference.

[Barney]

RE: Concessionary Bus Pass reform

(31/07/2019 21:03)iMarkeh Wrote:  I 100% think there should be a fine in place for misusing a concessionary pass. I would put money on the fact there is concessionary passes being used by those who aren't the named person on the pass (Hidden disabilities do exist but those who want to abuse the system will know how to do so by now). Most drivers don't check the pass to check the user matches the details on the pass (which I appreciate is not a drivers job but it's an observation) so people think they can get away with it easier.

The MyTicket thing is laughable. While I wouldn't want to see an mandatory ID based system like TFGM brought in, I can see it being necessary. Profits will go up by about 30%.

You are of course correct in suggesting that fraudulent usage of concessionary passes does occur but the question is to what extent. Without presenting any hard evidence you have implied that it it is on a large scale and I would argue that it is a lot less than 1% of all transactions as whenever a card is reported lost, stolen or expires the chip in it is automatically cancelled thus rendering it useless. Also, this thread was started to discuss the issue of the Welsh Assembly's decision to raise the eligibility age from 60 to state pensionable and there is no plan to limit the number of concessionary passes issued based on disability which you seem quite keen on.

Furthermore, you are conflating two unrelated issues in that a MyTicket is NOT a concessionary pass but has to be paid for by the passenger and drivers can and do ask for ID evidence as proof of age.

As for suggesting that a fine should be levied for the misuse of a concessionary pass, the last time I saw an inspector checking tickets the driver called him Blakey.