First Manchester

[Brickmill]

RE: First Manchester

(14/02/2019 22:56)buses7675 Wrote:  Can we all get back on topic please everyone, I understand you are passionate about a discussion regarding franchising but perhaps it would be better in a different thread rather than the First Manchester one

Thank you :-)

I intended contacting you about this yesterday morning but couldn't find a link to Mods. Wasn't there a thread covering Reform plans in both GM & LCR? As I think it was sparked by Steve Rotherham going to Public Consultation. Could it be redirected there?

[Steve440]

RE: First Manchester

(09/02/2019 12:33)T42 PVM Wrote:  No chance Stagecoach would be allowed to buy any of the 3 Depots

No one has discussed the possibility that we may see another "Barnstaple" situation here where First simply de-register all their services and someone else (Stagecoach?) registers replacement services and maybe purchases some vehicles from First. That way there is no competition authority involvement.

[Mayneway]

RE: First Manchester

(16/02/2019 07:50)Steve440 Wrote:  No one has discussed the possibility that we may see another "Barnstaple" situation here where First simply de-register all their services and someone else (Stagecoach?) registers replacement services and maybe purchases some vehicles from First. That way there is no competition authority involvement.

If there's several companies (non Stagecoach) who are willing to pay what First are asking surly First would go with that option.
Do Stagecoach Manchester have a big enough licence to start registering loads of First services. Don't forget, when Stagecoach acquired Wigan depot from First they had to run it on a seperare licence for months until they had their licence increased.

[Metroline1511]

RE: First Manchester
Route One has reported specifically that first have ignored rumours of the Manchester sale.
https://www.route-one.net/articles/Opera...le_rumours

[Mrboo]

RE: First Manchester

(16/02/2019 07:50)Steve440 Wrote:  No one has discussed the possibility that we may see another "Barnstaple" situation here where First simply de-register all their services and someone else (Stagecoach?) registers replacement services and maybe purchases some vehicles from First. That way there is no competition authority involvement.

That the point I made about Stagecoach could take Oldham and move Middleton to a site round Hollingwood and then run them with First giving them over for them buying the buses or just routes. how many spare op discs does stagecoach have? with them just taking the Oldham road services and 409 and for HCT Manchester and Stagecoach to just take they want and rest being cut as TFGM cant fund them.

[gilesbus1]

RE: First Manchester
Is there not a further situation where the Manchester operations as a separate company legally to FirstGroup i.e. First Manchester Ltd, could bring in the receiver and go into voluntary receivership which the receiver selling off the assets to clear the debt. I've never ever heard of this before, but I am sure its possible.

In that situation I guess the first thing that might happen is FirstGroup as its own entity buy back the newer buses and use them to replace elderly stocks of buses elsewhere.

If the assets were sold like that I guess no garage would be secure unless someone made a bit for the garage and assets as the garage sites can be used for other uses and therefore the fleets there would be homeless.

In terms of Barnstaple I think Manchester is too big to just do that, and raise on capital from it as the capital assets are quite big.

Of course I aren't 100% sure of the legality of that, but I am sure it must be possible as other groups have liquidated parts in the past, take the owners of HMV for example.

On another topic I have heard that the sale might not include Vantage services and they might be continued by First from a separate base in Leigh that may or may not be purchased, how true that might be remains to be seen.

[johnluke]

RE: First Manchester
I'm sure if a sale was to happen the buyer would want vantage also

[Mrboo]

RE: First Manchester

(16/02/2019 16:43)gilesbus1 Wrote:  Is there not a further situation where the Manchester operations as a separate company legally to FirstGroup i.e. First Manchester Ltd, could bring in the receiver and go into voluntary receivership which the receiver selling off the assets to clear the debt. I've never ever heard of this before, but I am sure its possible.

In that situation I guess the first thing that might happen is FirstGroup as its own entity buy back the newer buses and use them to replace elderly stocks of buses elsewhere.

If the assets were sold like that I guess no garage would be secure unless someone made a bit for the garage and assets as the garage sites can be used for other uses and therefore the fleets there would be homeless.

In terms of Barnstaple I think Manchester is too big to just do that, and raise on capital from it as the capital assets are quite big.

Of course I aren't 100% sure of the legality of that, but I am sure it must be possible as other groups have liquidated parts in the past, take the owners of HMV for example.

On another topic I have heard that the sale might not include Vantage services and they might be continued by First from a separate base in Leigh that may or may not be purchased, how true that might be remains to be seen.

Can`t see them keeping the Vantage services if that case they had a depot at Rusholme that I always seen as the best base for the Vantage services.

[WhiteVanMan]

RE: First Manchester

(16/02/2019 16:43)gilesbus1 Wrote:  Is there not a further situation where the Manchester operations as a separate company legally to FirstGroup i.e. First Manchester Ltd

Correct

[Brickmill]

RE: First Manchester

(17/02/2019 21:35)Mrboo Wrote:  Can`t see them keeping the Vantage services if that case they had a depot at Rusholme that I always seen as the best base for the Vantage services.

Vantage is based very much on Leigh/Atherton start/finish so the recently closed Rusholme depot was just a geographical co incidence. Also, it is run as a sort of concession allowing the Operator exclusive rights to the Busway itself, so would probably need to be treated separately to the rest of the business.