(06/07/2022 07:46)Manc93 Wrote: [ -> ]& 57, 84, 181, 182.
They have decimated Oldham, and the surrounding areas, suprised they still operate the 348 with the dead running into Ashton, must be a similar reason to give up on the Rochddale local.
81 years ago used to be every 10 minutes Derker - Manchester, slowly eroded, Stagecoach have the monopoly on Moston Lane now, hopefully they might trial a service on the route, TfGM only generally award tenders for services once an hour i think the rule is, so bad news for Oldham bus passengers.
Also 8th October seems like a strange Cancellation date, usually the start of September when schools return, and then around halloween when schools break up, but First have given exactly 3 months notice i guess?
Am sure 81 is going to Stagecoach as run very close to their middtion depot so could be good for their driver changeovers to interwork 81 with oldham and city centre services. But what space do they have for more buses? I pointed out few years ago a Stagecoach depot at Hollingwood would work for them. But it now all going to be case of wait and see who gets what routes on tender in few years time to see if depots get moved.
It's all well and good guessing that 81 could go to Stagecoach (who already run the evening service) but unless things change in the next couple of months I'm not to sure whether this could actually happen, yes Stagecoach might have the vehicles to operate the service but I know right now at the moment their particularly struggling for drivers at some depots and I know that some duties at Middleton Depot are being covered by drivers loaned from other Depots.
(07/07/2022 06:26)M60lad Wrote: [ -> ]It's all well and good guessing that 81 could go to Stagecoach (who already run the evening service) but unless things change in the next couple of months I'm not to sure whether this could actually happen, yes Stagecoach might have the vehicles to operate the service but I know right now at the moment their particularly struggling for drivers at some depots and I know that some duties at Middleton Depot are being covered by drivers loaned from other Depots.
First could offer to Tupe over drivers.
(07/07/2022 04:00)Mrboo Wrote: [ -> ]Am sure 81 is going to Stagecoach as run very close to their middtion depot so could be good for their driver changeovers to interwork 81 with oldham and city centre services. But what space do they have for more buses? I pointed out few years ago a Stagecoach depot at Hollingwood would work for them. But it now all going to be case of wait and see who gets what routes on tender in few years time to see if depots get moved.
Individual routes are not going out to tender as part of franchising....its the entire depots....Middleton is one the depots being compulsory purchased by tfgm....so I can't see it been moved....tfgm will decide which routes are operated out of each depot...people think it is going to be like London francising...its not
(02/07/2022 08:41)Metroline1511 Wrote: [ -> ]The latest registrations point to routes 6, 80, 81/a and X84 being due for withdrawal on October 8th.
Did wonder whether it was First just tiding up the registrations, seeing as the 80 was partly replaced in September 2020 by a re-routed 184. Wouldn't surprise me if the 6, 81 and X84 were withdrawn by First though.
The 6 definitely would fit in more with the Rosso portfolio of services in Rochdale, particularly after the 408 was withdrawn back in April, meaning that the 6 has become a standalone service in Rochdale.
As previously mentioned, the 81 is a shadow of its former self now, being squeezed out by Stagecoach services along Moston Lane (and possibly the sales of Queens Road depot to Go Ahead Group and Bolton depot to Rotala reducing First's presence between Harpurhey and Manchester as they stopped running the 17, 18 and 163 routes). Oldham-Moston section has also lost out a bit to Metrolink as well with the trams providing a quicker journey to Manchester from Freehold or South Chadderton stops.
The X84 was a service I used regularly pre-pandemic and is probably a service that has suffered due to Covid. The service was busy at rush hour pre-2020 but now numbers much lower, plus just one journey each way (down from four each way).
The presence of Metrolink in the Oldham area has definitely had a negative impact on First's services in the area. And Covid has probably made it worse. Could also include the abandoned plan to sell Oldham depot, when several cross-town routes were split up in Oldham (59, 83, 180/184, 425).
Looking back to Oldham/Rochdale/Tameside area (or services operated from Oldham/Tameside depot) services 10 years ago (mid-2012) compared to now:
- Rochdale-Kirkholt: Was every 12 minutes, now every 20 minutes (6)
- Rochdale-Manchester via Middleton: Was every 10 minutes, now every 12 minutes and operated by Go North West (17)
- Rochdale-Manchester via Royton: Was every hour, now scrapped (24)
- Failsworth-Salford via NMGH: Was every 30 minutes, now operated by Go North West (52)
- Oldham-Shaw: Was every 7/8 minutes (58/59), now every 30 minutes weekdays and hourly Saturdays (57)
- Oldham-Middleton via Chadderton: Was every 7/8 minutes (58/59), now every 10 minutes (59)
- Oldham-Middleton via Royton: Was every 30 minutes (64), now scrapped
- Oldham-Moston-Manchester: Was every 10 minutes (81/81A), now every 30 minutes weekdays and hourly Saturdays (81)
- Oldham-Derker: Was every 20 minutes (81), now every hour operated by Stagecoach (411)
- Oldham-Waterhead: Was every 5 per hour (81/81A/350), now every 30 minutes (350)
- Oldham-Sholver: Was every 10 minutes (83), now every 20 minutes (82)
- Oldham-Manchester via Manchester Road: Was every 5 minutes, now every 15 minutes weekdays and every 10 minutes Saturdays (83)
- Oldham-Manchester via Hollins Road: Was every 10 minutes (180/184), still every 10 minutes (84)
- Oldham-Uppermill via Lees: Was 4 per hour (184), now 3 per hour (84/184)
- Oldham-Diggle via Lees: Was 2 per hour, now every hour (184)
- Oldham-Huddersfield: Every hour (184)
- Oldham-Greenfield via Lees: Was every 30 minutes, now every 70 minutes (180)
- Oldham-Limeside via Heron Street: Was every 30 minutes, now operated hourly by Stagecoach (183)
- Oldham-NMGH via Moston: Was every 30 minutes, now every hour and operated by Stagecoach (149)
- Rochdale-Shaw: Was every 7/8 minutes (58/181/182), now every hour and operated by Transdev
- Shaw-Manchester: Was every 15 minutes (181/182), now every hour (182)
- Royton-Manchester: Was 5 per hour (24/181/182), now every 30 minutes (181/182)
- Ashton-Hazelhurst circulars: Was every 30 minutes each way (38/39), now partly covered by Little Gem services 336/337
- Ashton-Hurst circulars: Was every 30 minutes each way (331/333), now partly covered by Little Gem services 336/337
- Ashton-Denton: Every hour, now operated by Stotts (335)
- Ashton-Crowhill: Was every 30 minutes (41), now operated by Stotts (339)
- Ashton-Dukinfield: Was every 30 minutes (41), now operated by Stotts (335) or Little Gem (389)
- Ashton-Hyde via Dukinfield: Was every 20 minutes, now operated by Stagecoach only (346)
- Carrbrook-Ashton: Was every 10 minutes, now every 20 minutes weekdays and every 30 minutes Saturdays (348)
- Oldham-Uppermill-Ashton: Every 30 minutes (350)
- Hey Farm-Ashton: Was every 10 minutes, now every 30 minutes (350)
- Micklehurst-Ashton: Was every 10 minutes, now every 15 minutes (350)
- Denshaw-Uppermill-Ashton: Was every two hours (354), now every hour and operated by Nexus Move (356)
- Delph-Uppermill-Ashton: Was every hour (353/354), now every hour and operated by Nexus Move (356)
- Ashton-Hyde via Mottram: Was every hour, now every hour and operated by Stotts (387)
- Ashton-Hyde via Stalybridge: Was every 30 minutes, now every hour between Ashton and Dukinfield and operated by Little Gem (389)
- Ashton-Smallshaw: Was every 30 minutes (393), now every hour and operated by Stotts (396)
- Oldham-Oozewood via Royton: Was every 30 minutes, now every hour and operated by Transdev (402)
- Shaw-High Crompton circular: Was every hour each way (403/404), now every hour and operated by Transdev (403)
- Oldham-Chadderton Park: Was every hour (406), now every hour and operated by Stagecoach (149)
- Stalybridge-Oldham via Abbeyhills: Was every hour, now scrapped (408)
- Buckstones-Oldham: Was every 30 minutes weekdays (408/428), every hour Saturdays (408), now operated by Transdev (402).
- Rochdale-Ashton via Oldham: Was every 7/8 minutes, now every 10 minutes (409)
- Oldham-Glodwick circulars: Was every 30 minutes each way (410/411), now scrapped.
- Oldham-Holts via Greenacres: Was every 30 minutes (415), now every hour between Oldham and Lees (184)
- Oldham-Middleton via Alkrington: Was every 15 minutes, now every hour and operated by Go North West (415)
- Middleton-Ashton: Was every 30 minutes (419), now every hour operated by Stotts (396)
- Oldham-Holts via Abbeyhills: Was every 12 minutes, now every 15 minutes (425)
- Oldham-Fitton Hill: Was every 12 minutes (425), now every 30 minutes (426)
- Rochdale-Daniel Fold: Was 2 per hour (438), now every 30 minutes and operated by Transdev (467)
- Rochdale-Peppermint Bridge: Was every hour (451), now every hour and operated by Transdev (R4)
- Rochdale-Littleborough via Milnrow: Was every hour (452), now every hour and operated by Transdev (R5)
- Rochdale-Stansfield: Was 4 per hour (454/457), now every hour and operated by Transdev (457)
- Rochdale-Wardle-Hollingworth Lake-Littleborough: Was 2 per hour (455/456/458), now every 30 minutes and operated by Transdev (458)
- Rochdale-Ladyhouse: Was every hour (462), now every hour and operated by Transdev (R6)
- Rochdale-Bury via Bamford: Was every 30 minutes (469), now every 15 minutes and operated by Transdev (467/468)
- Rochdale-Bury-Bolton: Was every 10 minutes, now every 12 minutes and operated by Diamond (471)
- Carrcote-Manchester Express: Was every 3/4 journeys, now 1 journey (X84)
You have to wonder whether First had a crystal ball when deciding to close Dukinfield and pulling out of Tameside 6 months later.
At the time everyone (including me) thought they were crazy withdrawing so much work but looking at the way the services have gone they couldn’t have sustained the costs of keeping a depot open with just two commercial services (348,350).
It’s also worth remembering that most of the Ashton circulars were commercial during the day back when First ran them, they are now completely subsidised.
(07/07/2022 09:43)Michael Wrote: [ -> ]Individual routes are not going out to tender as part of franchising....its the entire depots....Middleton is one the depots being compulsory purchased by tfgm....so I can't see it been moved....tfgm will decide which routes are operated out of each depot...people think it is going to be like London francising...its not
None of the depots are being compulsory there no legal right to do so same as making them sell their buses. they are taking the routes. if say Stagecoach lose Hyde Road and win say GNW area they can say it's their training centre and Offices so will move GNW routes in and may or may not take the staff. same for Mumps No one wants that depot they want the routes as the cost the keep the roof and parts are listed. So again who ever gets it could say we don't want the lease that depot if First sold it to TFGM ( unlikely they would not sell it )
And what happens at Arriva and First at Bolton?
They have to make a offer and what happens to buses owned by Groups or banks may not be sold if owners don't agree. this is going to be an issue if Stagecoach don't keep there new buses and depot as tfgm will be forced to buy at any cost offered.
until we see how Arriva Bolton / First Bolton / Tyrer Bus / Atlantic travel / Vison bus / Stagecoach wigan / DNW get taken over we don't really know what going to happen. and DNW is also there group bus workshop so they may not go easy
Think Pioneer John be looking down at us knowing he sold his buses to First at the right time for them to just mess it all up.
There's also areas where First used to operate routes via that don't have a service anymore:
Lees-Holts 81A
Broadway-Oldham Road 24
Rochdale-Littleborough via Milnrow & Hollingworth Lake 452 (Yes it know part of this route is covered by Rosso now but for a number of years it was left uncovered)
Oldham/Middleton-Trafford Centre 58 (Considering how dead Oldham is these days I think this service would be well used)
Oldham-Hartshead 425 (Nothing runs from Oldham this way anymore)
As for 350 one slight mistake is that from what I can gather the Micklehurst turnbacks only run Mon-Fri with the full Oldham-Ashton service running Mon-Fri.
(08/07/2022 02:58)Mrboo Wrote: [ -> ]None of the depots are being compulsory there no legal right to do so same as making them sell their buses. they are taking the routes. if say Stagecoach lose Hyde Road and win say GNW area they can say it's their training centre and Offices so will move GNW routes in and may or may not take the staff. same for Mumps No one wants that depot they want the routes as the cost the keep the roof and parts are listed. So again who ever gets it could say we don't want the lease that depot if First sold it to TFGM ( unlikely they would not sell it )
And what happens at Arriva and First at Bolton?
They have to make a offer and what happens to buses owned by Groups or banks may not be sold if owners don't agree. this is going to be an issue if Stagecoach don't keep there new buses and depot as tfgm will be forced to buy at any cost offered.
until we see how Arriva Bolton / First Bolton / Tyrer Bus / Atlantic travel / Vison bus / Stagecoach wigan / DNW get taken over we don't really know what going to happen. and DNW is also there group bus workshop so they may not go easy
I work at Hyde Rd..there is notice up telling us the depots are going to be be compulsory purchased...tfgm decide what services will be run out of each depot not the companies...the notice tells us routes could change at Hyde Rd including running services from other depots & companies...also that Hyde Rd could be operated by another company...dont know what the training school has got to do with anything ..that can be just moved