Forum | Merseyside Dennis Dart Website

Full Version: First Manchester
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731
(28/02/2019 18:49)buses7675 Wrote: [ -> ]I think the proposal for a payment of £100 per day is only for buses that aren't Euro6 compliant.

I suspect with a potential cost of £700 per week to run a Euro5 bus into Manchester, if this gets put into place, it would be cheaper to modify the Euro4/5 buses to Euro6 standards.

I wonder where in the lines an Enviro400H stands though, as while it might have a Euro5 engine, wouldn't being a hybrid give it a better overall rating in theory?

Do all E400Hs have Euro5s? BBC report an arbitrary date of 2013 and newer as exempt which does translate to diesel Euro6, but I thought Stagecoach M'cr s 12 reg E400Hs had identical engines to the 13/63 regs.

Also, don't forget the increasing number of Euro3s that Stagecoach are using and I would think an much larger share of the current "First" fleet (mainly B7RLEs) are also Euro3. Probably, even more significant is that the Zone will be county wide, not just entering the city centre, The only exception being Motorways.
(28/02/2019 00:01)Winston Wrote: [ -> ]As regards buses, Rotala have bought very little second-hand stuff in the past 12 months, the last being 2 x 66 plate Solo SR's (ex GHA), 2 x 14 Plate Scania Omnilinks (ex Express Motors) & 2 x DF Streetlites (ex Yourbus). Since then it's been brand new buses as follows:

The two 66 plate Solo SR were from Express Motors not GHA - YJ66APU & YJ66APO are both branded for the 226 in Dudley. Rotala also purchased Express Motors Dolo CX10AUP
(28/02/2019 20:36)Brickmill Wrote: [ -> ]Do all E400Hs have Euro5s? BBC report an arbitrary date of 2013 and newer as exempt which does translate to diesel Euro6, but I thought Stagecoach M'cr s 12 reg E400Hs had identical engines to the 13/63 regs.

As far as I knew, with the exception of a few in London and development bus 10000, there aren't any Euro6 Enviro400 original shapes built - certainly none up North.

Almost all original shape Enviro200s and Enviro300s will be the same, Euro 5 or lower, even those built up to 2015.
(28/02/2019 20:43)Nwales Bus Wrote: [ -> ]The two 66 plate Solo SR were from Express Motors not GHA - YJ66APU & YJ66APO are both branded for the 226 in Dudley. Rotala also purchased Express Motors Dolo CX10AUP

For some reason I had it in my head that Express Motors bought them when nearly new off GHA, don't know where I got that idea from.

They wont be branded for the 226 for much longer.
(28/02/2019 20:44)buses7675 Wrote: [ -> ]As far as I knew, with the exception of a few in London and development bus 10000, there aren't any Euro6 Enviro400 original shapes built - certainly none up North.

That suggests 2013 (and even 2014?) built 12180-12257 (or is it now -12258?) are Euro5s, but whilst the fact they are hybrid counts for nothing, the registration plate counts for everything - similarly the 272xx series at Wigan and the 37xxx Enviro200s at Stockport. Oh! and back on topic, the Enviro300s and Streetlites at Oldham.
Yeah the 272xx at Wigan will be Euro5 - the only local Enviro300 that was Euro6 was 27905 at Gillmoss (that was built as a development to test it all) but it has since gone to Gloustershire.

I'm sure it is possible to convert older (but still fairly new) buses to Euro6 - One of the 3481x Darts at Chester claims to be upgraded to Euro6 now so it can be done and is probably cheaper long term than paying £100 a day per bus.
(28/02/2019 22:18)buses7675 Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah the 272xx at Wigan will be Euro5 - the only local Enviro300 that was Euro6 was 27905 at Gillmoss (that was built as a development to test it all) but it has since gone to Gloustershire.

I'm sure it is possible to convert older (but still fairly new) buses to Euro6 - One of the 3481x Darts at Chester claims to be upgraded to Euro6 now so it can be done and is probably cheaper long term than paying £100 a day per bus.

There's no "probably" about it. Even if it cost £10,000 per conversion, they'd save the money in just over three months of operation. I've plucked that figure out of thin air of course - does anyone have a reasonable grasp of the true cost of such a conversion ?
(28/02/2019 22:35)EDB325 Wrote: [ -> ]There's no "probably" about it. Even if it cost £10,000 per conversion, they'd save the money in just over three months of operation. I've plucked that figure out of thin air of course - does anyone have a reasonable grasp of the true cost of such a conversion ?
Although no clear answers are coming out regarding which buses are involved, especially Hybrid s, the notes going to GMCA mention £29 million. Very roughly this suggests c 20k per bus. The other question is timescale as if finally approved in the format proposed their will be barely 2 years to convert 1500 buses whilst minimising disruption to services.
(01/03/2019 07:24)Brickmill Wrote: [ -> ]Although no clear answers are coming out regarding which buses are involved, especially Hybrid s, the notes going to GMCA mention £29 million. Very roughly this suggests c 20k per bus. The other question is timescale as if finally approved in the format proposed their will be barely 2 years to convert 1500 buses whilst minimising disruption to services.

Thanks - so on those figures, the saving would be made on six months in operation.

Your second point is very interesting - one wonders if the Andy Burnham's of this world have even considered it.
(01/03/2019 09:14)EDB325 Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks - so on those figures, the saving would be made on six months in operation.

Your second point is very interesting - one wonders if the Andy Burnham's of this world have even considered it.

The second point could equally be asked of Client Earth and Whitehall as they are the ones pulling the strings. Hopefully, the results of today's meeting will reveal clarity.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731
Reference URL's