Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan

[Southernsofty]

RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan

(07/03/2019 13:33)Barney Wrote:  Seriously, have you thought of applying for Chris Grayling's or Nusrat Ghani's job which, hopefully, will both become available soon? You certainly seem to have a better handle on the situation than they do.

Well since you asked, Secretary of State for Transport would be my dream job! wouldn't be very popular though, spending many millions on rail electrification.

[gilesbus1]

RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan
It just came to me the regulations will also apply to the following operators who work in to Greater Manchester

Arriva Merseyside (St Helens & Southport Depots) - Although think the ADL Enviro400's that work in from Southport are already compliant
Arriva North West (Macclesfield outstation)
First West Yorkshire (Todmorden Outstation and Huddersfield Depot)
Transdev Burnley & Pendle and Transdev Lancashire United although what works into Manchester on the X43 is already compliant and is due for replacement in any case.
D & G
Warrington Borough Transport
Yorkshire Tiger
Stagecoach Merseyside & South Lancs (Glenvale) (Preston depot and Chorley Outstation) although much that works in from Chorley Outstation on the 126 is already compliant.
High Peak Buses

Maybe there are others?,

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Also there are the following Greater Manchester operators who do schools services that will also be effected:-

Tyrers
R Bullock
Finch
Chesters
Go Goodwins

Where as these are not coaches would come from the bus budget presumably?

Also within Greater Manchester there is

Vision Bus

[Barney]

RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan

(07/03/2019 16:24)Southernsofty Wrote:  Well since you asked, Secretary of State for Transport would be my dream job! wouldn't be very popular though, spending many millions on rail electrification.

Would cancelling HS2 and Crossrail 2 and diverting funds to an HS3 project also be on your to do list?

[gilesbus1]

RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan

(07/03/2019 17:08)Barney Wrote:  Would cancelling HS2 and Crossrail 2 and diverting funds to an HS3 project also be on your to do list?

Presumably if HS2 was cancelled HS3 becomes HS2?

[Quackdave]

RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan

(07/03/2019 16:24)Southernsofty Wrote:  Well since you asked, Secretary of State for Transport would be my dream job! wouldn't be very popular though, spending many millions on rail electrification.

It may not make you popular with your colleagues in the Treasury, but I suspect it would make you very popular elsewhere, as I think most people were less than impressed with Grayling's ridiculous statement that electrification is "no longer required" thanks to "new technology" - apparently referring to the novel idea that you can run trains over non-electrified sections of railway using diesel power. Yes, Chris, I think we've known that for a while - British Rail ran numerous services this way, including the successful through service from Waterloo to Weymouth which ran for 21 years using electrics as far as Bournemouth, thereafter attaching a diesel. Two points about this: firstly, that although the arrangement had worked well, it didn't stop them electrifying the full route in 1988; and secondly, that despite having had bi-mode technology since 1962, they didn't seek to use it for this, or indeed for very much else, because the extra complexity and dead weight mean that it is rarely the most sensible solution, something that I think remains true today. Really, the only fundamentally new thing that the current generation of bi-mode trains can do is to change over from diesel to electric traction at line speed - and given that the wires will generally end at big places like Cardiff, where all trains stop anyway, that doesn't really add much.

(Apologies for O/T!)

[Brickmill]

RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan

(07/03/2019 17:03)gilesbus1 Wrote:  It just came to me the regulations will also apply to the following operators who work in to Greater Manchester

Arriva Merseyside (St Helens & Southport Depots) - Although think the ADL Enviro400's that work in from Southport are already compliant
Arriva North West (Macclesfield outstation)
First West Yorkshire (Todmorden Outstation and Huddersfield Depot)
Transdev Burnley & Pendle and Transdev Lancashire United although what works into Manchester on the X43 is already compliant and is due for replacement in any case.
D & G
Warrington Borough Transport
Yorkshire Tiger
Stagecoach Merseyside & South Lancs (Glenvale) (Preston depot and Chorley Outstation) although much that works in from Chorley Outstation on the 126 is already compliant.
High Peak Buses

Also within Greater Manchester there is

Vision Bus

ANW Macc probably won't need to comply as the majority of the 130 operates within East Cheshire; Similarly FWY Tod - not sure about Huddersfield as 184 operates into the city centre, though it might only need about 5 or 6 Euro6s or conversions anyway.
Transdev 464 also now complies but yes there will be a problem with Rosso ops wholly within the county.
Sg MSL may also be OK given the length of the route and the vast majority of buses comply anyway. Just one point of order, the main service is now 125, not 126 but as it was 126 for so many decades I think you can be forgiven (lol)
High Peak is an interesting one and illustrates the sheer stupidity of this "initiative". Apart from the vast majority of their ops being out of the county, the 199 would only be restricted between High Lane and Stockport, not along the M60/M56. This is because despite Motorways and their junctions being MAJOR contributors to pollution (incl. 9 of the ten top polluting locations in GM) due to thousands upon thousands of diesel vehicles crawling along them - not least between Denton and Sharston - M-ways will be totally exempt.

[Steve440]

RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan
Huddersfield depot do not run the 184, it operates from Oldham depot

[gilesbus1]

RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan
Thanks Brickmill for that I had forgotten Motorways are exempt which no doubt some hauliers and long distance coaches will therefore be able to drive straight through Greater Manchester yet not contribute, lets not forget the M6, M58, M60, M62 (both West Yorkshire - M60 and Liverpool - M602), M61, M66, M602 and M67 all flow through Greater Manchester.

Interestingly no doubt it means a coach operator based within Greater Manchester will be at a disadvantage over one based elsewhere in that they are then in a position to undercut on Private Hire work outside the county, presume this would prove a problem for operators like Grayway, Memory Lane Coaches and Olympia who no doubt compete with operators in Lancashire, Cheshire and Merseyside for some Private Hire and Excursion work, and could we also have the situation were some tour operators decide that there pick up point for tours is a Motorway Service Area to avoid paying any pollution charge. Also on a similar note might some freight operators open internet parcel pick up points at Motorway service areas to avoid charges rather than at local supermarkets were it is a possibility.

[Southernsofty]

RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan

(07/03/2019 23:29)gilesbus1 Wrote:  Thanks Brickmill for that I had forgotten Motorways are exempt which no doubt some hauliers and long distance coaches will therefore be able to drive straight through Greater Manchester yet not contribute, lets not forget the M6, M58, M60, M62 (both West Yorkshire - M60 and Liverpool - M602), M61, M66, M602 and M67 all flow through Greater Manchester.

Interestingly no doubt it means a coach operator based within Greater Manchester will be at a disadvantage over one based elsewhere in that they are then in a position to undercut on Private Hire work outside the county, presume this would prove a problem for operators like Grayway, Memory Lane Coaches and Olympia who no doubt compete with operators in Lancashire, Cheshire and Merseyside for some Private Hire and Excursion work, and could we also have the situation were some tour operators decide that there pick up point for tours is a Motorway Service Area to avoid paying any pollution charge. Also on a similar note might some freight operators open internet parcel pick up points at Motorway service areas to avoid charges rather than at local supermarkets were it is a possibility.

Might work the other way round, If (and I know it's not certain or how the grants would be doled out) Coach operators inside Greater Manchester are given money by TfGM to upgrade some or all of their coaches to Euro 6, then coach companies outside Greater Manchester will be at a disadvantage and may just say 'It's not worth our while bidding for work inside Manchester'.
I know that down in the South East, some coach companies have already decided to turn down work in London (Partly to be fair because of parking issues), or explained to potential customers that there will be an extra charge to cover the cost of the daily fine.
I note the comment about Motorways being exempt, presumably Manchester Airport won't be exempt?
With Internet parcel deliveries, the firms who own the vans themselves usually have modern fleets that are Euro 6 already or very soon, the ones that use self employed owner drivers don't care anyway -'Not their problem'!
Big Delivery companies have modern vehicles and can afford to buy/lease new every year or switch trucks around from other regions.

[gilesbus1]

RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan
One other question, sorry a bit off topic again, what happens with preserved vehicles are they exempt? or do they pay the £100 a day when used, and if so under which category as officially they aren't a service bus under the normal sense of the word? Also is GMTS exempt as a museum supported by TfGM, or do they pay as well?

Also what happens with the open top tour buses, should they run again?, do they pay the bus fee or do they pay the HGV/Coach fee?