First Manchester

[gilesbus1]

RE: First Manchester
From what I understand about Vantage is that it was a ten year contract, the service is making money, however First's bid was too low for them to make a profit so they are actually losing on it.

If First are keeping Vantage they would also keep service 582 hence the bid for Green Bus Fund here as the staff interlink between the two routes and as part of the bid Electric Bus infrastructure would be shared between services 582 and V1-V2.

There is a problem though with Vantage loadings in that, in peak times they re overloaded, but in the winter off peak they struggle to fill up vehicles which means in effect a lot of dead running with empty vehicles and extra resources having to be stored for peak-time use, this was also the case with the 34 prior to 1996 when First Manchester operated it commercially. Services V1 & V2 are commuter routes into Manchester and many people from Leigh and Atherton due to the decline of those towns economises over the years, work in Manchester City Centre mainly in various offices, but also in the retail industry and for the NHS at the Manchester Hospitals, in addition some people change and go onwards to destinations like Oldham, Stockport and South Manchester for work, in the day times, that load really depends on Students and Old Age pensioners, so the loading's can be remarkably different and varied, also traffic issues in and out of Manchester means further spares are required in addition in peak times which is the problem in a nutshell.

However passenger growth has been very good and Giles Fearnley was praising the V2 service for the largest Growth of any First Service anywhere in the last three years, only recently in a trade magazine.

Interestingly some V3 and V4 peak extra's are currently operated by Queens Road depot therefore it will be interesting to see what happens with these when Queens Road depot passes to Go Ahead, will they transfer over to Bolton depot or will Go Ahead become a sub contractor as well?

[Mrboo]

RE: First Manchester

(09/03/2019 18:43)gilesbus1 Wrote:  From what I understand about Vantage is that it was a ten year contract, the service is making money, however First's bid was too low for them to make a profit so they are actually losing on it.

If First are keeping Vantage they would also keep service 582 hence the bid for Green Bus Fund here as the staff interlink between the two routes and as part of the bid Electric Bus infrastructure would be shared between services 582 and V1-V2.

There is a problem though with Vantage loadings in that, in peak times they re overloaded, but in the winter off peak they struggle to fill up vehicles which means in effect a lot of dead running with empty vehicles and extra resources having to be stored for peak-time use, this was also the case with the 34 prior to 1996 when First Manchester operated it commercially. Services V1 & V2 are commuter routes into Manchester and many people from Leigh and Atherton due to the decline of those towns economises over the years, work in Manchester City Centre mainly in various offices, but also in the retail industry and for the NHS at the Manchester Hospitals, in addition some people change and go onwards to destinations like Oldham, Stockport and South Manchester for work, in the day times, that load really depends on Students and Old Age pensioners, so the loading's can be remarkably different and varied, also traffic issues in and out of Manchester means further spares are required in addition in peak times which is the problem in a nutshell.

However passenger growth has been very good and Giles Fearnley was praising the V2 service for the largest Growth of any First Service anywhere in the last three years, only recently in a trade magazine.

Interestingly some V3 ad V4 peak extra's are currently operated by Queens Road depot therefore it will be interesting to see what happens with these when Queens Road depot passes to Go Ahead, will they transfer over to Bolton depot or will Go Ahead become a sub contractor as well?

Well First do Sub one of the Bristol busway routes to BCT ( HT Group)

[Metroline1511]

RE: First Manchester
When First sell QR to Go-Ahead it will effectively reunite route 41 and East Yorkshire under common ownership after 5 years apart. Route 41 had of course been part of EYMS - Finglands until 2014 then EYMS sold out to GA last year.

[gilesbus1]

RE: First Manchester
Think if the Vantage side of the business is to be retained by FirstGroup, and also possibly the 582 then it will cause problems as to find and open a new depot site will take months, therefore that would mean any sale of Bolton will likely not be imminent.

The only solution would be if the Bolton opps and depot past to Diamond Bus North West then the let on the Atherton site could go to FirstGroup in part Exchange, other than that there is no quick solution, as no vacant bus or haulage depots in the area exist. The only other option would be to franchise Vantage services to the new operator of Bolton depot, if its possible under the terms of the contract with TfGM for operating Vantage.

[Winston]

RE: First Manchester

(17/03/2019 01:14)gilesbus1 Wrote:  Think if the Vantage side of the business is to be retained by FirstGroup, and also possibly the 582 then it will cause problems as to find and open a new depot site will take months, therefore that would mean any sale of Bolton will likely not be imminent.

The only solution would be if the Bolton opps and depot past to Diamond Bus North West then the let on the Atherton site could go to FirstGroup in part Exchange, other than that there is no quick solution, as no vacant bus or haulage depots in the area exist. The only other option would be to franchise Vantage services to the new operator of Bolton depot, if its possible under the terms of the contract with TfGM for operating Vantage.

It's highly unlikely that First will just retain Vantage & the 582. The most likely scenario is a break clause to terminate the contract early and hand it back to TfGM (it can then go out for re-tender) or see current contract through to the end on a re-negotiated price. I assume a buyer for Bolton would just want some assurances.

As for your depot swap proposal with DBNW, I'm led to believe that Bolton is already at full capacity, even with removing the Vantage fleet & say the 582, it's still doubtful whether that would leave enough room to accommodate Atherton's fleet should Rotala be the buyer for Bolton.

[Y458 KNF]

RE: First Manchester
Are we still no closer to finding out who will be buying Bolton & Oldham surely all 3 depots are for sale?

[Mrboo]

RE: First Manchester

(17/03/2019 16:08)darylyates17 Wrote:  Are we still no closer to finding out who will be buying Bolton & Oldham surely all 3 depots are for sale?

Think both are going on Ebay next week?

[Mayneway]

RE: First Manchester

(17/03/2019 16:08)darylyates17 Wrote:  Are we still no closer to finding out who will be buying Bolton & Oldham surely all 3 depots are for sale?

I've been told by a driver from oldham that First will oversee the completion of the sale of Queens road first before any announcements are put out about Bolton or Oldham.

[Winston]

RE: First Manchester

(18/03/2019 11:18)Mayneway Wrote:  I've been told by a driver from oldham that First will oversee the completion of the sale of Queens road first before any announcements are put out about Bolton or Oldham.

To be fair, drivers are normally the last to know what's going on.

[iMarkeh]

RE: First Manchester
Considering they are selling up, there are some interesting registrations.

41 has been extended to Altrincham (with the terminus being Sale, Northenden, Rusholme so unsure on if it is just a mistake and this should be in the 'Via' instead)
2 from Bolton to Trafford Centre has a new 22 introduced and from what I can gather it will extend to Stockport.