Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan

[knutstransport]

RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan

(18/03/2017 20:50)Dentonian Wrote:  My argument isn't inconsistent, in that there are advantages and disadvantages to the principle of Day Tickets. In retrospect I was wrong to infer that £5.30 was acceptable for all Arriva NW passengers - albeit it probably also depends on the rate of singles for short journeys, and whether Day Returns exist.

Generally return tickets are non-existent and if you ask for a return the driver asks you for £5.30 and issues you with a day ticket.

Quote:I won't get bogged down in the comparison between Longridge (overspill for an overspill!) and Trafford, mainly because Trafford is the richest borough in GM, with the highest overall car ownership. Yes, I do accept there are exceptions such as Sinderland - which is ANW country, anyway - but historically, Trafford has been nowhere near as bus dependant as the borough's and residential areas east and north of Manchester.

I thought the objection was to Stagecoach Manchester increasing fares. They serve a lot of the more prosperous areas of Greater Manchester - Altrincham, Didsbury, Withington, Hazel Grove, Flixton, Worsley, Salford Quays, Cheadle and Marple, while people going to the Trafford Centre for shopping aren't short of money. Yes they also serve less prosperous areas but the same is true with operators who serve Knutsford - D&G serve Crewe and Stoke, Howards serve Northwich and they both serve Macclesfield.

Quote:I'm a bit confused over the "differences" you quote, as apart from there being more evening services in GM, virtually all the points you make seem relevant to both. I'm guessing you are saying that workplace parking is free/cheap in Cheshire towns, but shoppers have to pay. That is slightly the reverse of Manchester (specifically the city centre), but in the districts, paid-for-parking is a rarity for both.

It's rare to hear of workers paying for parking in Cheshire. Even where work places don't have parking places included as part of renting the building they quite often acquire parking places/permits separately to be consistent with other employers. Supermarkets usually offer free parking - or if the car park is a council owned pay & display the supermarket usually refunds your parking if you spend over a certain amount in store.

I don't really understand what point you were trying to make by saying 'free parking is the norm' in GM - other than stations and Metrolink stops having free parking (which is supposed to be for train/tram passengers only) I don't know where all this supposedly free parking is. I know both Trafford and Stockport councils charge you for using their car parks. Trafford also charge for street parking, in Cheshire we don't have that street parking is free but limited to 30 minutes with no return in 3? hours.

Quote:That ties into your comment about Metrolink: *Everything* is more reliable than Metrolink, but Metrolink is "untouchable". It is the very epitome of not letting the truth interfere with image. Also, don't confuse Reliability with Punctuality.
Reliability is the percentage of (registered/timetabled) journeys completed. Punctuality is the number of those journeys run between 59 seconds early and 4 minutes 59 seconds late).

Don't forget operators express reliability as a percentage, so if a Metrolink route with a service every 6 minutes gets closed for 60 minutes the percentage of cancelled services is a similar figure to on a Northern route with a service every 60 minutes, despite Metrolink cancelling 10 services in each direction and Northern cancelling just 1. However, which is going to annoy passengers more - 1 cancelled service or 10 consecutive cancelled services?

[knutstransport]

RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan

(19/03/2017 17:00)Dentonian Wrote:  I'm not sure *who* the other candidates are! OK. slight exaggeration, as the main parties have announced their candidates, but its not clear if any independants will be standing. Certainly, no other candidate has gone public with their plans for buses - unlike Liverpool City Region (on Granada Reports) - and indeed, I gather nominations for candidates don't even close until 5th April!

Well I can't vote in the election and I know the Tory candidate is that guy from Trafford who became the youngest ever councillor and the Greens had to pick a replacement as their original candidate died. Also the UKIP candidate is a Jew who says he can't shake hands with women because of his religion - not that many women will want to shake hands with a member of UKIP!

[rod_259]

RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan

(19/03/2017 17:00)Dentonian Wrote:  I'm not sure *who* the other candidates are! OK. slight exaggeration, as the main parties have announced their candidates, but its not clear if any independants will be standing. Certainly, no other candidate has gone public with their plans for buses - unlike Liverpool City Region (on Granada Reports) - and indeed, I gather nominations for candidates don't even close until 5th April!

Booze ups and breweries spring to mind with any politician running a business. Also given how Gordon Brown left my kids and grandkids in debt due to mismanagement - oh dear me! Was in Australia during first part of century when they cleared their a National Debt whilst Labour spent money for fun. Have no faith in Burnham whatsoever or any politician for that matter if any party. The last time politicians ran Manchedter buses what a set of heaps. No investment for years

[urmstonian]

RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan

(19/03/2017 16:43)Dentonian Wrote:  What's it like on Saturday mornings, though? The biggest problem section of the 203 is Bulls Head to Houldsworth Square. This is 8 stops (1.2 miles) plus 4 sets of Traffic Lights and at least two Ped-Xs. In the peak, it gets up to 14 minutes but on Saturday and Sunday mornings it gets 5! How are you supposed to get through 4 sets of traffic lights in 5 minutes, irrelevant of traffic conditions and the amount of passengers picked up?

That's quite a contrast between the weekend and weekday timing!

On a Saturday morning, it gets just 3-5 minutes, which is all it really needs on a weekday. This is residential area, severe queuing traffic is rare.

[acocker96]

RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan

(19/03/2017 22:09)Dentonian Wrote:  I make no comment on the current Mayoral candidates, but I understood that the American Prime Mortgage industry and world banks had just a teensy weensy bit to do with the Recession, and how wonderful the NHS etc is now under t'other lot. Not quite sure how 150-200 buses a year translates as no investment. I think the most generous response to your thoughts is probably "two wrongs don't make a right".

I agree the national debt had its roots in the Thatcher and Major governments.

[Bevan Price]

RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan

(18/03/2017 23:01)urmstonian Wrote:  My local bus to work is the 256. Timetabled from Davyhulme Circle (08:05) to Lostock Circle (08:14), a journey of 4 stops (0.9 miles). The timetable gives the morning peak bus 9 minutes - it should only take 5 minutes at the very max. The road is rarely busy, and you only queue at the motorway junction for a minute or two.

A couple of weeks ago, a drive actually apologised saying she wouldn't be going anywhere soon, because of the timetable.

With such a slow timetable where it is arguably not required, and slow journeys stuck in traffic, coupled with inflation busting fare rises, it's no wonder more and more people are cycling to work or getting in their cars. I thought smart cards, mobile ticketing and contactless were supposed to speed up the boarding process, but we're yet to see the improvements in journey times.

Part of the problem is due to the Traffic Commissioner's punctuality rules which can penalise operators for both early running & late running (buses should not be more than 1 minute early or 5 minutes late at all timing points.). This leads operators to time buses for "bad traffic" conditions, which means they gain time when traffic is not so busy - but then have to waste time - waiting for the scheduled departure at timing points. In my opinion, buses should always be timed for "quiet traffic" conditions, and everyone (including Traffic Commissioners) should accept that buses will never be early, but may sometimes be late during "busy" conditions. Passengers would benefit by getting faster journeys on many days, and it would eliminate that annoying "waiting for time" that helps make bus journeys unnecessarily slow.

[knutstransport]

RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan

(19/03/2017 23:12)acocker96 Wrote:  I agree the national debt had its roots in the Thatcher and Major governments.

Indeed. Taking in to account inflation the deficit left when Osborne took over from Darling as Chancellor was only slightly worse than the one we had when John Major sacked Norman Lamont as Chancellor and appointed Ken Clarke to take his place. At the end of the first term of the 'New Labour' government (with Brown as Chancellor) the country's finances were the best they had been for over 30 years.

However, many people choose to believe what the PR consultants employed by the Conservative Party have come up with, over the truth - an independent body prior to the 2015 general election said the Lib Dems were the only party to have a complete viable financial plan with the Conservative's plan requiring more spending cuts then they are admitting to and Labour's plan omitting a time scale.

[knutstransport]

RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan

(19/03/2017 19:41)Dentonian Wrote:  I did say I "exaggerated". These four are all known, but their policies aren't. The question mark is over the Communist Party, who I think have withdrawn, and Independants. A millionaire businessman (can't remember his name) was supposed to be standing, but the Media haven't mentioned him. There is also a LibDem, but I've forgotten his/her name, and there is the BNP, but I don't care what its name is.

Every time the news does a report on any of the candidates standing they say at the end "There are x candidates standing with the election taking place on 4th May" and while doing that they show a full list of all the current candidates. In my area the Labour party can't even seem to produce a flyer for their candidates and get it delivered to all houses in the ward so we often finish up with having a choice of voting for a known Conservative candidate or a mystery Labour candidate.

Doing a quick Google your Independent is Marcus Farmer who owns a waste disposal company. There is no BNP candidate - you were probably thinking of Stephen Morris who's standing for the English Democrats. Jim O'Neill is also saying he will stand as an Independent - he's a Goldman Sachs advisor but hasn't submitted his paperwork yet. Jane Brophy is the Lib Dem candidate.

Burnham's manifesto summary says the following on transport

Quote:We will publish a new plan to tackle congestion and commission an urgent
review of the condition and configuration of our busiest roads, working with
businesses, road users and Transport for Greater Manchester to see what
quick changes can be made to improve traffic flows.

We will use new powers to make our bus services more affordable, more
reliable and more accessible to disabled people and families with pushchairs.
We will use the latest technology to introduce an integrated ticketing system
on all forms of public transport, making travelling round the city-region more
affordable and more convenient.

We will require bus operators to provide accessible information on their
services, including audio announcements and visible media.

We will work with our councils to build a new network of dedicated cycle
lanes, making full use of old infrastructure (such as disused railways and
canal towpaths), to link up each borough to the city-centre and create radial
links.

We will launch an iconic bike-hire scheme, making use of the latest
technology, to make cycling a more accessible and convenient way to get
around.

We will appoint an Active Travel Commissioner for Greater Manchester and
ask them to report back to the Mayor on a regular basis.

We will reinvest the profits from Metrolink towards expanding the network,
and develop new high-quality transport links with a particular focus on radial
routes across boroughs.

We will put forward a plan to modernise our local train stations, making them
more accessible, linked to other forms of public transport, and work with local
businesses to make better use of empty waiting rooms.

We will work with Rail North to replace our outdated trains, increase capacity
and help deliver new services, such as a fast Northern Connect service
between Manchester and Liverpool.

As powers to improve bus services become available, we will use them to
give all 16-18 year olds in Greater Manchester a free bus pass. As a first
step, we will introduce half-price travel for 16-18 year olds on public transport,
starting with buses and extending to Metrolink as soon as possible.

[acocker96]

RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan
I think the free 16-18 bus pass is a good idea but should only be given to those who are in education, training or working. Giving it to the unemployed 16-18 year kids is terrible because by law they should be in education or training. Giving it them will encourage layabout scroats.

[Barney]

RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan

(20/03/2017 10:01)knutstransport Wrote:  Every time the news does a report on any of the candidates standing they say at the end "There are x candidates standing with the election taking place on 4th May" and while doing that they show a full list of all the current candidates. In my area the Labour party can't even seem to produce a flyer for their candidates and get it delivered to all houses in the ward so we often finish up with having a choice of voting for a known Conservative candidate or a mystery Labour candidate.

Doing a quick Google your Independent is Marcus Farmer who owns a waste disposal company. There is no BNP candidate - you were probably thinking of Stephen Morris who's standing for the English Democrats. Jim O'Neill is also saying he will stand as an Independent - he's a Goldman Sachs advisor but hasn't submitted his paperwork yet. Jane Brophy is the Lib Dem candidate.

Burnham's manifesto summary says the following on transport

Living at the other end of the East Lancs, I find it astonishing that bus travel in Manchester is so different, especially ticketing arrangements. On Merseyside we have had a Saveaway ticket (now part of the Walrus Smartcard) that allows adult unlimited bus, train and ferry travel on any service for £5.70 per day. For passengers aged 5-18 there is now a Myticket for the princely sum of £2 per day that also allows all-day unlimited bus travel.