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Northern (Arriva Rail North)
RE: Northern (Arriva Rail North)
(16/08/2017 19:58)Dentonian Wrote:  I'll try to be equally as brief:
1. Fully aware that Rail passengers have been given 20 weeks notice of an average 3.5% fare increase - as I am of its condemnation by the Unions, Media and most politicians. GM Bus users had a 7.5% increase with much less than 2 weeks notice back in April. A bit of an outcry about First's rises in the MEN (but not about Stagecoach's!), not a dicky bird from local BBC/Granada or lobbyists or Unite.

2. 1.5 miles is exactly the average for home to rail head, so my point is made.

4. Do you mean they pay £800 million total or £800m more than the estimated £5.6 billion subsidy. More importantly, are you saying that is going back to the Treasury, or to Network Rail?
I have never said that the bus industry aren't to blame, themselves. The only people who are blameless for the problems in he bus "industry" are the law abiding, loyal (usually car-less) adult bus passengers, who have seen fares increase 10 fold (singles in GM) in 31 years (RPI has gone up c.170% in the same period); constant service cuts and punctuality/running times deteriorating at a faster (!) rate than ever.
As regards lobbyists; The Media are absolutely besotted by Rail. The "oh so impartial" BBC are the worst of the lot, forever playing the "poor, long suffering rail commuter" card whilst blaming buses for all urban pollution - despite the fact that 9 out of the top 10 most polluted road sections in GM have 4 or less buses an hour on them! Richard Westcott made it perfectly clear that he thinks Tax-payers should continue to pay more than 36% of the cost of each ticket.
I suspect there is someone on this forum who will disagree, but don't think the "Road" lobby has any time for bus users. They spread lies about TIF in 2008 and their members are constantly, illegally delaying the progress of buses and removing the confidence of physically disabled people to use buses.


The premium payments go to the Government.

SD.
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RE: Northern (Arriva Rail North)
(16/08/2017 19:58)Dentonian Wrote:  GM Bus users had a 7.5% increase with much less than 2 weeks notice back in April. A bit of an outcry about First's rises in the MEN (but not about Stagecoach's!), not a dicky bird from local BBC/Granada or lobbyists or Unite.

All GM bus operators or just two of the big ones? MCT fares in Manchester remain very low!

Remember all regulated train fares are increasing on the same day in January, so it affects all rail users in the region not just those using certain operators in one part of the region. Wouldn't it get a bit repetitive if they did news stories for large fare rises by every bus operator in the region?
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RE: Northern (Arriva Rail North)
(Yesterday 09:16)knutstransport Wrote:  Unlike bus fares the price of rail tickets are available online on various websites. You specifically asked for a 4 mile journey but the inconsistencies between PTE area fares and non-PTE areas are greater for longer journeys

For example in Cheshire:
Knutsford to Northwich (5 miles) £5.50 off-peak return
Knutsford to Delamere (13.5 miles) £8.70 off-peak return
Knutsford to Chester (23.5 miles) £10.70 off-peak return

While in Greater Manchester:
Manchester to Stockport (5 miles) £5.00 off-peak return (10% cheaper)
Levenshulme to Manchester Airport (13.5 miles) £5.90 off-peak return (47% cheaper)
Wigan to Mills Hill (23.5 miles) £5.90 off-peak return (81% cheaper)

The short journeys will probably be consistent after another couple of fare rises, while the inconsistencies in longer journeys will take much longer to iron out. Of course, there's always exceptions so if you choose different journeys the results will be different. I've also used distance by rail which will be longer than the distance by road in some cases and shorter in other cases e.g. for Levenshulme to Manchester Airport the distance includes going in to Piccadilly and back out again.

Thanks for these. I think £5.90 is a de facto maximum, equivalent to the old DayRanger, which I assume no longer exists. Wigan just to Piccadilly is also £5.90 DR. This rose 50p last time, when such as Reddish North was frozen at £3.60 OPR

Actually, Stagecoach Manchester do show individual bus fares on line. Its First that don't.
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RE: Northern (Arriva Rail North)
(Yesterday 14:23)knutstransport Wrote:  All GM bus operators or just two of the big ones? MCT fares in Manchester remain very low!

Remember all regulated train fares are increasing on the same day in January, so it affects all rail users in the region not just those using certain operators in one part of the region. Wouldn't it get a bit repetitive if they did news stories for large fare rises by every bus operator in the region?


MCT only run Tendered services. Well over 90% of commercial services in GM are run by one (or occasionally both) of First or Stagecoach. Commercially, Arriva only feature as a minority operator in Bolton, Wigan/Leigh, Salford, Manchester and Trafford; Rotala in Wigan/Leigh and less so, Bolton, Salford & Trafford and Rosso in Bury, Rochdale and less so Bolton and Oldham. From memory Tameside is 100% Stagecoach or First, and Stockport the same except for High Peak 199. Apart from Jim Stones, I don't think there are any Indy's left running commercially in GM

As regards media coverage, even allowing for the fact that GM has the lowest bus ridership of any Met county, it is still relevant to far more people in the county than rail (or tram) fares, and still worth mentioning regionally - AND they are always Inflation busting. 3 times RPI in one year might not be excessive, but consistently over 31 years........I would expect similar coverage of fare rises in Merseyside and even other areas with large Operators and low/ish car ownership.
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RE: Northern (Arriva Rail North)
https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/further-two-...ail-north/
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RE: Northern (Arriva Rail North)
(Today 12:41)Gordon V Wrote:  https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/further-two-...ail-north/

Irrelevant of the arguments themselves, what practical effect are these Strikes having - particularly Northern? Each time, more and more trains actually run, an I would have thought if Management were able to:

a. Persuade more volunteers to man peak trains, at the expense of off-peak trains.
b. Concentrate on routes/stops where Commuters have less practical alternatives.

The Action would fizzle out.
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RE: Northern (Arriva Rail North)
(Today 16:42)Dentonian Wrote:  Each time, more and more trains actually run, an I would have thought if Management were able to:

Actually that wasn't the case on some routes last time. The Mid-Cheshire line only had around 4 return Chester to Altrincham workings on the Saturday and 3 on the Sunday, compared to the around 7 return workings which there had been on previous strike days. Then to make matters worse they cancelled some of the few Chester to Altrincham workings and replacement buses took 2 hours to arrive!
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RE: Northern (Arriva Rail North)
(Today 16:59)knutstransport Wrote:  Actually that wasn't the case on some routes last time. The Mid-Cheshire line only had around 4 return Chester to Altrincham workings on the Saturday and 3 on the Sunday, compared to the around 7 return workings which there had been on previous strike days. Then to make matters worse they cancelled some of the few Chester to Altrincham workings and replacement buses took 2 hours to arrive!

Emphasises my point b! then. Although nothing ran beyond Chinley, the Hope Valley Line ran a full hourly service on Sat/Mon, with peak extras on the Monday and the last train about 2000hrs.
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