D&G Bus

[knutstransport]

RE: D&G Bus
Been reported elsewhere D&G were running some late rail replacement buses between Knutsford and Chester in the past week with the recently transferred Versas making an appearance - at least the drivers should be familiar with most of the route. Have D&G been operated RRBs for Northern for long? Normally Northern seem to use coach hire companies and bus operators with limited or no public bus services like MP Travel.

[iMarkeh]

RE: D&G Bus

(19/05/2019 09:33)knutstransport Wrote:  When CEC originally put out their proposal for the 88 out to consultation there were a number of issues raised including:
1. A lack of a bus from Macclesfield to Knutsford at the end of hospital visiting hours (4pm)
2. The last bus from Macc being too early for those who finish work at 5.30pm - it was originally proposed to leave Macc bus station at 17:35.
3. Poor timings and lack of flexibility for those commuting from Macclesfield to Radbrooke Hall.

The first two issues were addressed before the new timetable started, the last was addressed at a timetable change. However, in addressing the last and changing the times to improve punctuality the first two issues have come up again. While there needs to be a bus allowing those who finish work at 17:30 to get home, it now means those finishing work at 5pm have to wait over an hour for a bus home. While the original timetable allowed someone to spend around 90 minutes visiting a sick friend/relative at the hospital during visiting hours (allowing for some time to get to and from the ward), now it only allows a 60 minute visit.

The whole thing could be made more simple if they put 1 more bus out. Hourly Macc - Altrincham via Knutsford and Wilmslow. 1 bus doing Northwich to Knutsford (This could probably be extended to High Legh to save paying for the 47 and would provide better shopping opportunities). Splitting it off would mean it could better serve the needs of the areas it serves (There are numerous school buses which run from Knutsford into the Northwich area which this service could look to replace in part but combined with the 88, it can't as it would mess things up too much).

(19/05/2019 11:30)knutstransport Wrote:  Been reported elsewhere D&G were running some late rail replacement buses between Knutsford and Chester in the past week with the recently transferred Versas making an appearance - at least the drivers should be familiar with most of the route. Have D&G been operated RRBs for Northern for long? Normally Northern seem to use coach hire companies and bus operators with limited or no public bus services like MP Travel.

As far as I know, Arriva Rail Replacement will accept anyone with the relevant licences. If you think you can do a trip, name your price and if you are cheaper, you run it. If you can't run it, dont bid. Clearly D&G have some spare buses at the times the trips are needed. It all depends on how many buses are needed and the prices on whether you get picked or not. Arriva were having less and less operators on the system not long ago. I don't know if it's the same now but Arriva used to be bad at paying up so operators stopped doing work so perhaps they are now desperate.

[Rick Hunter]

RE: D&G Bus
The rail replacement this past week was operated from Wincham with Versa 28. Just one single journey per night Knutsford to Chester and back private. There have been several other instances of rail replacement operated from Crewe depot on several weekends, albeit with a Wincham driver.

(19/05/2019 11:30)knutstransport Wrote:  Been reported elsewhere D&G were running some late rail replacement buses between Knutsford and Chester in the past week with the recently transferred Versas making an appearance - at least the drivers should be familiar with most of the route. Have D&G been operated RRBs for Northern for long? Normally Northern seem to use coach hire companies and bus operators with limited or no public bus services like MP Travel.

[Rick Hunter]

RE: D&G Bus
The previous hourly 27 requirerd 2 buses whereas the High Peak and Howards service used just one. It was likely much cheaper to contract the school service rather than provide another bus most of the day on the 27. The other bus ran off at 15.00 in any case. I can't say I ever remember seeing the Over Peover school bus. Many of the regular passengers still say the Knutsford to Macclesfield would be better hourly with alternate direct services. Most drivers at Wincham are on fixed lines where they do the same duty each day. The 09.30 from depot has a choice from 2 vehicles, one of which lately is always a long Enviro200, which he likes anyway. The guy who will end up with it on the 15.35 Knutsford to Altrincham doesn't want a long bus so the guy who does the 13.57 Knutsford to Macclesfield brings the spare bus out instead of the shunt car and keeps it so handing it over at 15.35 The Enviro200 then goes out at 14.57 to Macclesfield and the incoming bus then sits spare(13.45 from Altrincham) until returning to depot at 16.55. A notice has now gone up in Wincham stating Versas are for 82s only, Enviro200s for 288s and Solos for 88/89. The problem with that at the moment is there are currently 5 Enviro200s (3 required) and 4 Solos (5 required)

(19/05/2019 09:33)knutstransport Wrote:  The thing I don't get, either with the current timetable or the Howards one, is when High Peak decided to start running a reduced 27 service on a commercial basis it meant CEC had to contract a Knutsford Academy to Over Peover school bus, when previously those pupils were able to catch the normal bus. If they had gone back to an hourly service with alternate services via Beggarman's Lane & Over Peover and alternative services direct via Ollerton it could have met the needs of everyone and eliminated the need for a school bus contract.

I would hope any driver preference for a specific bus doesn't alter how much capacity a particular working gets and only means something like if 'Bob' does the 08:00 you get an ex-Go Goodwins Solo M880, while if 'Fred' does it you get an ex-Airport Solo M880 and if 'Charlie' does it you get a small Enviro 200, opposed to if it's Bob it's a Solo M990, if it's Fred it's a Solo M880 and if it's Charlie it's a big Enviro 200.

[knutstransport]

RE: D&G Bus
The 27 had the council owned Wright Cadets for 10 years and was a 2 bus all day route (except Sunday where there were 3 return workings) until the contract originally awarded to Bowers ended and High Peak attempted a commercial service. You're talking about the subsequent GHA commercial service which was 2 buses all day but on weekdays the 2nd bus ran a Macclesfield area school contract.

The other problem with the D&G arrangement is some of the 88 workings have too many passengers for 28 seater Solos, the contract was let on the basis 2 X 28 and 2 X 35 seaters would be used, so if they've only got 28 seaters available they should be using something other than a Solo as well. At a council meeting a while back Chris Almond said he was under the impression 35 seaters were used on the busier services except in exceptional circumstances.

[knutstransport]

RE: D&G Bus
I know the turning circle on the Solos isn't good but 26 minutes to get from one side of the road to the other?



On a more serious note a Solo M880 got stuck when working the Sunday 2 service on 12th May and the police had to intervene. If the plan is really to extend the 82 to Rudheath could it not cause a few issues trying to run Versas or possibly large Streetlites out there, especially on a Saturday?

[iMarkeh]

RE: D&G Bus
26 minutes? I can only see a 4 minute layover between arriving and leaving Wilmslow on opposite sides of the road.

[Rick Hunter]

RE: D&G Bus
It's easy for someone to say oh it would work much better just by putting an extra bus in the system. The simple fact is it would cost far too much. To put another bus out there costs in excess of 100k in running costs. As in wages, fuel, inspection, maintenance and repairs, tax, insurance. Frankly the revenue generated by the extra bus doing Northwich to High Legh is going to be nowhere near that, hence the High Legh bit wasn't included in the 88/89. So few people used the old 289 on that section. Only one Wincham vehicle is out after 21.00 so there was obviously a spare vehicle to cover the rail replacement trip at 23.00. It is quite well known Arriva were very bad at paying operators for rail work but I believe things have improved a lot now.

(19/05/2019 13:01)iMarkeh Wrote:  The whole thing could be made more simple if they put 1 more bus out. Hourly Macc - Altrincham via Knutsford and Wilmslow. 1 bus doing Northwich to Knutsford (This could probably be extended to High Legh to save paying for the 47 and would provide better shopping opportunities).

As far as I know, Arriva Rail Replacement will accept anyone with the relevant licences. If you think you can do a trip, name your price and if you are cheaper, you run it. If you can't run it, dont bid. Clearly D&G have some spare buses at the times the trips are needed. It all depends on how many buses are needed and the prices on whether you get picked or not. Arriva were having less and less operators on the system not long ago. I don't know if it's the same now but Arriva used to be bad at paying up so operators stopped doing work so perhaps they are now desperate.

[Rick Hunter]

RE: D&G Bus
Yes it is the GHA 27 I was talking about, however I wasn't aware it was commercial. The 15 past the even hour only worked until 14.15 from Knutsford then run off private from Macclesfield at 14.55 leaving the bus on the 15 past the odd hour to continue to the end of service.

There are in the main 2 Small Solos and 2 bigger buses on the 88. Yesterday had Big Solo 141, long Enviro200 118, Solo 49 and short Enviro200 122.

(20/05/2019 05:27)knutstransport Wrote:  The 27 had the council owned Wright Cadets for 10 years and was a 2 bus all day route (except Sunday where there were 3 return workings) until the contract originally awarded to Bowers ended and High Peak attempted a commercial service. You're talking about the subsequent GHA commercial service which was 2 buses all day but on weekdays the 2nd bus ran a Macclesfield area school contract.

The other problem with the D&G arrangement is some of the 88 workings have too many passengers for 28 seater Solos, the contract was let on the basis 2 X 28 and 2 X 35 seaters would be used, so if they've only got 28 seaters available they should be using something other than a Solo as well. At a council meeting a while back Chris Almond said he was under the impression 35 seaters were used on the busier services except in exceptional circumstances.

[iMarkeh]

RE: D&G Bus

(21/05/2019 09:24)Rick Hunter Wrote:  It's easy for someone to say oh it would work much better just by putting an extra bus in the system. The simple fact is it would cost far too much. To put another bus out there costs in excess of 100k in running costs. As in wages, fuel, inspection, maintenance and repairs, tax, insurance. Frankly the revenue generated by the extra bus doing Northwich to High Legh is going to be nowhere near that, hence the High Legh bit wasn't included in the 88/89. So few people used the old 289 on that section. Only one Wincham vehicle is out after 21.00 so there was obviously a spare vehicle to cover the rail replacement trip at 23.00. It is quite well known Arriva were very bad at paying operators for rail work but I believe things have improved a lot now.

Less than 100k (based on tender prices put in by many companies for services).
I am not saying they will add another bus for the record, I am just stating it would be easier for timetables and general operations. It does add significant cost but if there is demand, try to match the demand and that could turn into a commercial service (Though unlikely, it shouldn't ever be ruled out. Demand can change).

High Legh isn't that well used, the thought was more if they wanted to keep the existing timetable, you need something quick and local to do in 30 minutes. There would be no use including it as part of the normal 88/89 timetable as it is too far off route. The separation could make the Northwich section a minibus running once per week or allow them to better incorporate Northwich schools. With there being quite a few buses from the Knutsford area over to Northwich schools. The demand isn't really there in it's current state (around 44 pax per day based on figures from last year) so something needs doing to it.