First Manchester

[Brickmill]

RE: First Manchester

(28/02/2019 18:49)buses7675 Wrote:  I think the proposal for a payment of £100 per day is only for buses that aren't Euro6 compliant.

I suspect with a potential cost of £700 per week to run a Euro5 bus into Manchester, if this gets put into place, it would be cheaper to modify the Euro4/5 buses to Euro6 standards.

I wonder where in the lines an Enviro400H stands though, as while it might have a Euro5 engine, wouldn't being a hybrid give it a better overall rating in theory?

Do all E400Hs have Euro5s? BBC report an arbitrary date of 2013 and newer as exempt which does translate to diesel Euro6, but I thought Stagecoach M'cr s 12 reg E400Hs had identical engines to the 13/63 regs.

Also, don't forget the increasing number of Euro3s that Stagecoach are using and I would think an much larger share of the current "First" fleet (mainly B7RLEs) are also Euro3. Probably, even more significant is that the Zone will be county wide, not just entering the city centre, The only exception being Motorways.

[Nwales Bus]

RE: First Manchester

(28/02/2019 00:01)Winston Wrote:  As regards buses, Rotala have bought very little second-hand stuff in the past 12 months, the last being 2 x 66 plate Solo SR's (ex GHA), 2 x 14 Plate Scania Omnilinks (ex Express Motors) & 2 x DF Streetlites (ex Yourbus). Since then it's been brand new buses as follows:

The two 66 plate Solo SR were from Express Motors not GHA - YJ66APU & YJ66APO are both branded for the 226 in Dudley. Rotala also purchased Express Motors Dolo CX10AUP

[buses7675 (Website Founder)]

RE: First Manchester

(28/02/2019 20:36)Brickmill Wrote:  Do all E400Hs have Euro5s? BBC report an arbitrary date of 2013 and newer as exempt which does translate to diesel Euro6, but I thought Stagecoach M'cr s 12 reg E400Hs had identical engines to the 13/63 regs.

As far as I knew, with the exception of a few in London and development bus 10000, there aren't any Euro6 Enviro400 original shapes built - certainly none up North.

Almost all original shape Enviro200s and Enviro300s will be the same, Euro 5 or lower, even those built up to 2015.

[Winston]

RE: First Manchester

(28/02/2019 20:43)Nwales Bus Wrote:  The two 66 plate Solo SR were from Express Motors not GHA - YJ66APU & YJ66APO are both branded for the 226 in Dudley. Rotala also purchased Express Motors Dolo CX10AUP

For some reason I had it in my head that Express Motors bought them when nearly new off GHA, don't know where I got that idea from.

They wont be branded for the 226 for much longer.

[Brickmill]

RE: First Manchester

(28/02/2019 20:44)buses7675 Wrote:  As far as I knew, with the exception of a few in London and development bus 10000, there aren't any Euro6 Enviro400 original shapes built - certainly none up North.

That suggests 2013 (and even 2014?) built 12180-12257 (or is it now -12258?) are Euro5s, but whilst the fact they are hybrid counts for nothing, the registration plate counts for everything - similarly the 272xx series at Wigan and the 37xxx Enviro200s at Stockport. Oh! and back on topic, the Enviro300s and Streetlites at Oldham.

[buses7675 (Website Founder)]

RE: First Manchester
Yeah the 272xx at Wigan will be Euro5 - the only local Enviro300 that was Euro6 was 27905 at Gillmoss (that was built as a development to test it all) but it has since gone to Gloustershire.

I'm sure it is possible to convert older (but still fairly new) buses to Euro6 - One of the 3481x Darts at Chester claims to be upgraded to Euro6 now so it can be done and is probably cheaper long term than paying £100 a day per bus.

[EDB325]

RE: First Manchester

(28/02/2019 22:18)buses7675 Wrote:  Yeah the 272xx at Wigan will be Euro5 - the only local Enviro300 that was Euro6 was 27905 at Gillmoss (that was built as a development to test it all) but it has since gone to Gloustershire.

I'm sure it is possible to convert older (but still fairly new) buses to Euro6 - One of the 3481x Darts at Chester claims to be upgraded to Euro6 now so it can be done and is probably cheaper long term than paying £100 a day per bus.

There's no "probably" about it. Even if it cost £10,000 per conversion, they'd save the money in just over three months of operation. I've plucked that figure out of thin air of course - does anyone have a reasonable grasp of the true cost of such a conversion ?

[Brickmill]

RE: First Manchester

(28/02/2019 22:35)EDB325 Wrote:  There's no "probably" about it. Even if it cost £10,000 per conversion, they'd save the money in just over three months of operation. I've plucked that figure out of thin air of course - does anyone have a reasonable grasp of the true cost of such a conversion ?

Although no clear answers are coming out regarding which buses are involved, especially Hybrid s, the notes going to GMCA mention £29 million. Very roughly this suggests c 20k per bus. The other question is timescale as if finally approved in the format proposed their will be barely 2 years to convert 1500 buses whilst minimising disruption to services.

[EDB325]

RE: First Manchester

(01/03/2019 07:24)Brickmill Wrote:  Although no clear answers are coming out regarding which buses are involved, especially Hybrid s, the notes going to GMCA mention £29 million. Very roughly this suggests c 20k per bus. The other question is timescale as if finally approved in the format proposed their will be barely 2 years to convert 1500 buses whilst minimising disruption to services.

Thanks - so on those figures, the saving would be made on six months in operation.

Your second point is very interesting - one wonders if the Andy Burnham's of this world have even considered it.

[Brickmill]

RE: First Manchester

(01/03/2019 09:14)EDB325 Wrote:  Thanks - so on those figures, the saving would be made on six months in operation.

Your second point is very interesting - one wonders if the Andy Burnham's of this world have even considered it.

The second point could equally be asked of Client Earth and Whitehall as they are the ones pulling the strings. Hopefully, the results of today's meeting will reveal clarity.