Remaining Independents in Merseyside

[T42 PVM (Moderator)]

RE: Remaining Independents in Merseyside

(25/02/2019 09:00)Barney Wrote:  That is not beyond the realms of possibility as HTL is a mini/midibus operation mainly relying on tendered services. Should either Arriva or Stagecoach buy out HTL, Merseytravel would be over a barrel when it comes to renewing contracts.

As for Glenvale's demise, I know one of the financial backers of that company and he assured me that the cost of replacing an ageing fleet, upgrading depot facilities and tackling fare evasion was beyond him.

We are going off topic now but Arriva and Stagecoach would never buy HTL, Almost all the routes are tenders and HTL own hardly any of their Buses.

[iMarkeh]

RE: Remaining Independents in Merseyside

(24/02/2019 22:36)Barney Wrote:  The reason why there are fewer and fewer small bus companies both on Merseyside and across the UK is quite simple. Since 2010 subsidies from central government have been cut to the point that it is impossible to make marginal services profitable. Be honest, who would set up a business knowing that it would fail?

If you want to see an interesting and varied bus operation on Merseyside I suggest you buy a TARDIS. I'm sure that would attract passengers.

I am more thinking, just smaller companies like Jim Stones in Leigh, they do between school runs and lots of little local runs which make enough to keep them going. D&G do loads of between school routes. Arrowebrook is another good example of this. Running their 26 in between the school runs. It's just little things to keep the bus busy but it provides lots of local links for residents which they would never get with the big companies.

I think it is a bit harsh to say the business would fail as there are independents who are starting up and making money. Though not many startups succeed, some do.

[motormayhem1]

RE: Remaining Independents in Merseyside

(25/02/2019 09:00)Barney Wrote:  That is not beyond the realms of possibility as HTL is a mini/midibus operation mainly relying on tendered services. Should either Arriva or Stagecoach buy out HTL, Merseytravel would be over a barrel when it comes to renewing contracts.

As for Glenvale's demise, I know one of the financial backers of that company and he assured me that the cost of replacing an ageing fleet, upgrading depot facilities and tackling fare evasion was beyond him.

When i worked at supertravel , I was talking to the owner who was telling me he had the funds in place from a financial backer for him to put a bid in for GTL but the thing that put him off after looking into it was as you say
1. Ageing fleet upgrade
2. Facilities upgrade
3. Fare evasion
As he stated to me it would of cost him millions and the financial backing was only in place for him to buy GTL and not upgrade the company so any upgrades would have to come from revenue etc.
At first I thought he was pulling my leg but he was being serious about putting a bid in for it just before they got a bid from GO-AHEAD.

[CKC 312L]

RE: Remaining Independents in Merseyside
There are also Eazibus and A2B Travel over on the Wirral. Eazibus doing mainly school work and the 73 A2B doing all tendered work on behalf of Merseyside
Helms although based in Cheshire do have some schools work that come into Merseyside from Cheshire but these are not tendered as far as I am aware

[motormayhem1]

RE: Remaining Independents in Merseyside

(25/02/2019 12:34)CKC 312L Wrote:  There are also Eazibus and A2B Travel over on the Wirral. Eazibus doing mainly school work and the 73 A2B doing all tendered work on behalf of Merseyside
Helms although based in Cheshire do have some schools work that come into Merseyside from Cheshire but these are not tendered as far as I am aware

I thought HELMS/ACL had a depot near maghull?

[Barney]

RE: Remaining Independents in Merseyside

(25/02/2019 12:44)motormayhem1 Wrote:  I thought HELMS/ACL had a depot near Maghull?

It does. Most of its schools' work is for the private schools in Crosby such as Merchant Taylors' and St Mary's. The local comps make do with People's Bus and Maghull Coaches. None of these operators do tendered or stage carriage work, AFAIK.

[T42 PVM (Moderator)]

RE: Remaining Independents in Merseyside

(25/02/2019 12:54)Barney Wrote:  It does. Most of its schools' work is for the private schools in Crosby such as Merchant Taylors' and St Mary's. The local comps make do with People's Bus and Maghull Coaches. None of these operators do tendered or stage carriage work, AFAIK.

Peoplesbus Operate the 4/4A

[mr t]

RE: Remaining Independents in Merseyside

(25/02/2019 11:41)motormayhem1 Wrote:  When i worked at supertravel , I was talking to the owner who was telling me he had the funds in place from a financial backer for him to put a bid in for GTL but the thing that put him off after looking into it was as you say
1. Ageing fleet upgrade
2. Facilities upgrade
3. Fare evasion
As he stated to me it would of cost him millions and the financial backing was only in place for him to buy GTL and not upgrade the company so any upgrades would have to come from revenue etc.
At first I thought he was pulling my leg but he was being serious about putting a bid in for it just before they got a bid from GO-AHEAD.

All this was why glenvale was actually only a day away from going bust before Stagecoach stepped in all the others backed out, whilst Arriva was all over them on every single route in Liverpool on virtually the same frequencies. The public had had enough because buses kept breaking down or never turned up and so used Arrivas, and most of the drivers were also on the fiddle a new manager told me after it so they had to get rid of half the drivers for robbing, and some nights he caught drivers sitting off together, and in his words was worst depot/company they had EVER seen in the company. and engineers were often sent out on the 361 the "to test" new vehicles or ones that just been fixed, so obviously rarely ran. Gillmoss was just a scrap heap of dead buses - it was only buying CMT that kept them going a bit longer with their new vehicles, plus the Traffic commisioner and Merseytravel was all over them as well for their dismal performance and awful vehicle maintenance and they were about to be summonsed and have their ops license cut by 40 as they only ran about 75% of services

[buses7675 (Website Founder)]

RE: Remaining Independents in Merseyside
Shows the difference good management makes as Gillmoss does well these days!

[mr t]

RE: Remaining Independents in Merseyside

(25/02/2019 11:15)iMarkeh Wrote:  I am more thinking, just smaller companies like Jim Stones in Leigh, they do between school runs and lots of little local runs which make enough to keep them going. D&G do loads of between school routes. Arrowebrook is another good example of this. Running their 26 in between the school runs. It's just little things to keep the bus busy but it provides lots of local links for residents which they would never get with the big companies.

I think it is a bit harsh to say the business would fail as there are independents who are starting up and making money. Though not many startups succeed, some do.

And what other services do you propose running in Merseyside that only run 9 til 2? that can fill buses up!- hardly time for ANY route to make any money making local links that cost money to run and might get 1 or 2 people on who would probably be OAPs given most are in school or in work! As for any startups people no longer want to grow up and run as bus company plus they need to find depot, maintenance facilities, vehicles, drivers and have financial backing, so where do you propose they find all that in this day and age along with minimal reward from Merseytravel for tickets and contracts getting chopped, the great myticket that halved under 16s revenue, and the national OAP passes that started last 8 years which actually fill your buses up you think are always busy and making profits day in day out, and less fuel revenue, minimum wage increases and insurance, - the exact reason why so so many companies have gone to the wall across the country over the last 8 years, even First Manchester/Chester/Wirral, and depots shrinking also because of the cost of replacing older vehicles with newer DDA standard which is the law now- - I really want to know, as im sure everyone else on here does, how on earth you plan to run your company and make so much money that you always go on about is out their for companie are missing out on day after day, so you can take on Arriva and Stagecoach in every other post on here - you seem to know everything so go do it yourself and show us and the other companies how to do it, fill alllll these gaps in Merseyside & Cheshire with your full buses, that you go on about in every thread