First West Coast

[DVL418]

RE: First West Coast

(13/08/2012 22:25)First Class Wrote:  

(13/08/2012 21:05)wirralbus Wrote:  First Class how can you blame BR , the BR era is now 15 years ago for most franchises now , most franchises are getting to there second term now in the case of some like East Coast are on to there third franchise holder at the moment .

Well, for starters, there is the rolling stock issue. A lot of BR stock is still about, most if it life expired and in need of renewal. The DfT is primarily to blame here, and in the case of Merseyrail, the PTE. Things like the Pacer fleet should never have been commissioned by BR in the first place.

You also have the Beeching Report, which BR implemented, albeit again with government influence.

My pet hate is the legacy BR systems used to manage the fare systems, inherited from BR. It can add weeks on to projects because the computer systems are so outdated, slow and unbelievably complex. Again, you could argue that ATOC/DfT should have sorted this by now.

Dr Beeching now we are going back in time!

Have you actually read his report? I have.

He was the 1960's equivilant of Bob Diamond - an external (ICI) businessman brought in by the motorway loving Tory minister Ernest Marples with a remit of 'making the railways pay'. He completely mis-understood/ignored the contribution of branch lines to and used dubious pen and paper passenger census data and simplistic cost accounting techniques to provide his 'evidence' for the report recommendations. Before he could be stopped many strategic diversionary lines had been chopped along with swathes of Britain from the railway map. Other lines were simply left to rot by withdrawl of investment.

Fortunately, once his protector Marples had gone to spend more time with his road building friends wiser heads quietly binned most of his recommendations, but the damage was done and the result is several key gaps in the network whilst the south east (location of the bulk of Tory marginal seats) sees gross overprovision and duplication despite many lines/services being ruinously unprofitable.

On the fare system - perhaps the reason why we are stuck with such a clunky system is that ATOC wont pay their share for a new one out of their members profits?

[First Class]

RE: First West Coast
The DfT has put the final decision on the franchise back by 1 day.

Rumour is that Virgin (Beardy) has complained about the viability of the First Group/Horizon Trains bid.

[mbonwick]

RE: First West Coast
Yes, several top VWC managers were summoned to London yesterday, suggesting that all is not as straightforward as it seems.

There will be hell to pay if First get it, and Branson is proved right and the keys are handed back...

[buses7675 (Website Founder)]

RE: First West Coast
Very interesting - There would be even more hell to pay though if Virgin kept it and even they ran out of money with it!

I do think the government should be cautious about First's bid, if they are questioning where this money is coming from, as I'm sure they don't want another GNER/National Express East Coast situation where two operators hand it back and it ends up being operated by the DfT.

[First Class]

RE: First West Coast

(14/08/2012 14:19)buses7675 Wrote:  Very interesting - There would be even more hell to pay though if Virgin kept it and even they ran out of money with it!

I do think the government should be cautious about First's bid, if they are questioning where this money is coming from, as I'm sure they don't want another GNER/National Express East Coast situation where two operators hand it back and it ends up being operated by the DfT.

Virgin are acting pathetically IMO.

Their premium payment was going to be £2.9 Billion
First's premium was going to be £3.1 Billion

£0.2 Billion is nothing when we consider the numbers being discussed, in reality, the bids are extremely similar.

Virgin have thrown their toys out of the pram... how can they comment that First won't be able to maintain the premium payments, when they've put a very similar bid in themselves?

If First (Virgin for that matter) do win the franchise, they must put forward a £70m bond to the DfT immediately, as well as a commitment from shareholders to pay a £300m penalty -in the event they leave the franchise early, for any reason. First would be committed to pay £370million if they hand the keys back.

[wirralbus]

RE: First West Coast
It seems that this Government doesnt like Incumbent operators retaining franchises . Wouldnt the CC want to have a look at the IWC franchise because of the fact that they are the present franchise holder in Scotland's railway network and they have a big bus operation in Glasgow .

Sounds like First Transport Scotland , which nobody is going to like , let alone the Scottish Government .

[mbonwick]

RE: First West Coast
This isn't just about Premium payments though - which are paid if the franchise exceeds expectations - its about ordinary payments, made for the right to run the franchise.

First's £7bn bid over 14 years is £500m per year. Currently its making around £180m...

Franchising is broken, end of.

[First Class]

RE: First West Coast
Apparently, according to one source, (cough Maria Eagle MP), the following have lost:

Abellio
SNCF
Virgin

However, what is fact and certain is that over the last couple of days, the unsuccessful bidders have been invited to the DfT in London to receive feedback on their unsuccessful bids.

Anyway, 7 hours until we find out.

[First Class]

First Group Win
As predicted, First Group have won the Intercity West Coast Franchise, to start in December 2012.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/news/press-release...-20120815a
http://www.firstgroup.com/assets/pdfs/in...150812.pdf

Some key points:

Introducing new direct services from London to Blackpool, Telford, Shrewsbury and Bolton providing a new direct link to the capital for more than 500,000 people
Installation of automatic ticket gates installation at 21 stations, including the major terminals of London Euston, Manchester Piccadilly, Liverpool Lime St and Glasgow Central
Smart ticketing introduced across the network
Free upgraded high speed Wi-Fi, and enhanced mobile phone coverage following train refurbishment
Reducing Standard Anytime fares by 15% on average, this could potentially take £40.00 of a Liverpool-London "peak" return.

[First Class]

RE: First West Coast
Also, have Virgin burnt their bridges with their DfT?

Beardy said "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. When will the Department for Transport learn?" "Based on the current flawed system, it is extremely unlikely that we would bid again for a franchise."

Sounds like the end of Virgin (Rail) to me...

http://mediaroom.virgintrains.co.uk/2012...anson.html