Arriva North West - St Helens Depot

[RedPanda]

RE: Arriva North West - St Helens Depot

(28/02/2018 18:15)Valandil Wrote:  The new 329 timetable from 22 April 2018 looks like a really good step forwards for passengers, with more even gaps between the services provided by the 2 companies on Monday to Friday:
https://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/travelli...02018).pdf
It almost invites Link Network to increase to every half hour, to create a combined "every 15 minutes" service between Warrington and St Helens overall.

Credit where credit is due - I think this is exemplary and almost like a self-imposed QBP.
Other companies who are mindlessly competing with each other to the death could take something from this!

I thought a QBP accepted each other’s tickets without question. Being charged a small fee per journey with one operator and not accepting their competitors tickets on the other.
All Arriva have done is retimed their daytime journeys to leave 15 minutes before and after Link’s. I can see what you mean about inviting a second bus to join Link’s operation on the 329 but I could really see a big drop in passenger usage per journey.

The only way I could see it work is if there was a reintroduction in contiuing to Daresbury. But who to operate it?

[Valandil]

RE: Arriva North West - St Helens Depot

(28/02/2018 23:10)RedPanda Wrote:  I thought a QBP accepted each other’s tickets without question. Being charged a small fee per journey with one operator and not accepting their competitors tickets on the other.
All Arriva have done is retimed their daytime journeys to leave 15 minutes before and after Link’s. I can see what you mean about inviting a second bus to join Link’s operation on the 329 but I could really see a big drop in passenger usage per journey.

The only way I could see it work is if there was a reintroduction in contiuing to Daresbury. But who to operate it?

Feel free to disagree, but I think that's a really good gesture from Arriva.
Hopefully this will mean a stable situation and neither company will deviate.
They could have gone all predatory 'cat and mouse' instead and re-timed to run just ahead of Link Network - with little regulation, that's the 'quick buck' mindset that most operators would use.

Halton Transport have a Warrington - Daresbury peak-time service (62A) and many workers also use Arriva's X30 and walk from the nearest end of Daresbury village.

[iMarkeh]

RE: Arriva North West - St Helens Depot

(28/02/2018 23:28)Valandil Wrote:  Feel free to disagree, but I think that's a really good gesture from Arriva.
Hopefully this will mean a stable situation and neither company will deviate.
They could have gone all predatory 'cat and mouse' instead and re-timed to run just ahead of Link Network - with little regulation, that's the 'quick buck' mindset that most operators would use.

Halton Transport have a Warrington - Daresbury peak-time service (62A) and many workers also use Arriva's X30 and walk from the nearest end of Daresbury village.

Was Daresbury even that busy?

I think it is a good gesture but independants rely on the 'passing trade'. Obviously Arriva weren't getting that as Link run just in front. Cat and mouse ends badly as I am sure Arriva must know from other battles faced elsewhere. If they start playing that game, it ends up in either lots of lost revenue for both companies or it ends with a QBP. Neither company wants that. Arriva have lost enough money in Merseyside with the strikes, they need to make up as much money as they can to make up the depot profits.

[RedPanda]

RE: Arriva North West - St Helens Depot

(28/02/2018 23:28)Valandil Wrote:  Feel free to disagree, but I think that's a really good gesture from Arriva.
Hopefully this will mean a stable situation and neither company will deviate.
They could have gone all predatory 'cat and mouse' instead and re-timed to run just ahead of Link Network - with little regulation, that's the 'quick buck' mindset that most operators would use.

Halton Transport have a Warrington - Daresbury peak-time service (62A) and many workers also use Arriva's X30 and walk from the nearest end of Daresbury village.

Honestly I completely and respectfully disagree with most of that.
The timetable alterations from Arriva will make Link lose money from concessionary fares. Those that want the cheaper alternative will use the cheaper alternative. Those that use multiple Arriva buses buy passes and will use Arriva.

Where I can agree however is the cat and mouse. Arriva had the 329 all to themselves being the cat, along comes Link being the mouse and their introductory fare offer of free travel. The strikes followed and didn't help Arriva as people lost confidence in them. However, they're now stable and all is fine.

[Valandil]

RE: Arriva North West - St Helens Depot

(01/03/2018 01:13)iMarkeh Wrote:  Was Daresbury even that busy?

I think it is a good gesture but independants rely on the 'passing trade'. Obviously Arriva weren't getting that as Link run just in front. Cat and mouse ends badly as I am sure Arriva must know from other battles faced elsewhere. If they start playing that game, it ends up in either lots of lost revenue for both companies or it ends with a QBP. Neither company wants that. Arriva have lost enough money in Merseyside with the strikes, they need to make up as much money as they can to make up the depot profits.

The Daresbury extension wasn't busy at all - it was funded through the LSTF for a while, but when that ended so did the extension.

By creating as even a headway as possible (running 15 minutes either side of Link), they are choosing to split the passing trade among the two companies as evenly as possible.
In my opinion, this is an admirable thing to do, especially given that such a large company could easily put Link Network out of business if they wanted to in the market-driven economy.

[T42 PVM (Moderator)]

RE: Arriva North West - St Helens Depot
Having done a fair few times on the 329 extension with drivers i know certain trips did pick a fair few up with most getting off at Warrington BQ Railway Station

[Valandil]

RE: Arriva North West - St Helens Depot

(01/03/2018 12:08)T42 PVM Wrote:  Having done a fair few times on the 329 extension with drivers i know certain trips did pick a fair few up with most getting off at Warrington BQ Railway Station

I'm fairly sure that the trips which pick up will have been the ones in the peak periods, right?
Halton Transport's 62A seems to do a good job of catering for that demand with 3 trips there in the morning and 4 trips back in the afternoon.
The X30 does get some workers too who walk from the nearest end of Daresbury, but Arriva don't see it being worth it to call into the site itself.
It's a good point about calling at Warrington Bank Quay Station though - maybe the 62A should additionally call there to pick up that demand?

[Bevan Price]

RE: Arriva North West - St Helens Depot

(01/03/2018 12:47)Valandil Wrote:  I'm fairly sure that the trips which pick up will have been the ones in the peak periods, right?
Halton Transport's 62A seems to do a good job of catering for that demand with 3 trips there in the morning and 4 trips back in the afternoon.
The X30 does get some workers too who walk from the nearest end of Daresbury, but Arriva don't see it being worth it to call into the site itself.
It's a good point about calling at Warrington Bank Quay Station though - maybe the 62A should additionally call there to pick up that demand?

Possibly not enough potential traffic to justify the additional journey time? The road past Bank Quay station can be a long, slow crawl sometimes.

[Valandil]

RE: Arriva North West - St Helens Depot

(01/03/2018 19:45)Bevan Price Wrote:  Possibly not enough potential traffic to justify the additional journey time? The road past Bank Quay station can be a long, slow crawl sometimes.

That's true - mind you, I know it isn't exactly the same situation but Network Warrington don't seem to allocate any extra time for their service 12 past Bank Quay in the peaks over what it gets during the day.

[RedPanda]

RE: Arriva North West - St Helens Depot

(01/03/2018 19:45)Bevan Price Wrote:  Possibly not enough potential traffic to justify the additional journey time? The road past Bank Quay station can be a long, slow crawl sometimes.

I have wondered that why Bank Quay doesn't have a bus service running past it. Couldn't see Arriva operating it, St Helens depot or other depots that operate along Liverpool Road or past Network Warrington's depot. It would be better suited to those more local to Warrington or a fair bit of layover to kill.