Abellio East Midlands Railway

[iMarkeh]

RE: Abellio East Midlands Railway

(19/05/2020 06:16)SK15 GZG Wrote:  According to Eversholt:

Class 158 maximum acceleration: 0.8ms-2
Class 170 maximum acceleration: 0.5ms-2

So the Class 158s have better acceleration and reach their maximum speed sooner

Thank you.

(19/05/2020 08:38)knutstransport Wrote:  Not all 158s have the same type of engines - some have 350hp engines, others 400hp. I believe the ex-Wessex Trains ones have the inferior type which was why FGW kept the ex-TPE 158s and returned the ex-Wessex ones.

Based on Eversholt's acceleration graphs there's little difference up to 100km/h (62.5mph), between 100km/h and 125km/h (78mph) the 400hp 158 is noticeably better than the 170 but that isn't the case with the 350hp 158. Over 125km/h the 400hp 158 remains noticeably better than the 170 but at this range the 350hp 158 also outperforms the 170.

So the question is perhaps how much 100mph running is there, how much time can that save and is that more than the extra time spent accelerating above 62.5/78mph?

Also worth remembering the 158s have narrower doors and they are slow to open, compared to newer trains so the introduction of 170s should make it possible to reduce dwell times. It might be that they can do Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester (with calls at South Parkway, Widnes and Warrington) faster than 158s but then lose time on other sections.

As an aside Network Rail's rolling stock strategy looked at whether replacing 142s and 150s with cascaded 170s would have any effect on journey times and their models found journey times could improve on routes where there were frequent stops. Although, Northern have apparently found reliability of 170s on Harrogate stoppers isn't good.

I think the minor savings on station dwell times is neither here nor there. This sort of thing only sees time benefits at bigger stations.
I'm interested to see how the 170s would be faster though on frequent stop routes. 170s are meant to be better longer distance.

I don't think the 170s will see use on the Norwich - Liverpool route on the basis that EMR shouldn't be running it much longer. Too much work would be needed to accommodate the 170s between them being in service and the Nor-Liv service transferring out.

[knutstransport]

RE: Abellio East Midlands Railway

(19/05/2020 20:47)iMarkeh Wrote:  I don't think the 170s will see use on the Norwich - Liverpool route on the basis that EMR shouldn't be running it much longer. Too much work would be needed to accommodate the 170s between them being in service and the Nor-Liv service transferring out.

With Liverpool-Norwich it'll probably be a case of wait and see. The Northern franchise is still running the Barton Humber branch, which should have transferred to EMT in 2017. Liverpool-Norwich will be a more complicated transfer with further consultation needed before it can go ahead, which may go on the backburner with COVID-19.

[ant17612]

RE: Abellio East Midlands Railway

(20/05/2020 09:17)knutstransport Wrote:  With Liverpool-Norwich it'll probably be a case of wait and see. The Northern franchise is still running the Barton Humber branch, which should have transferred to EMT in 2017. Liverpool-Norwich will be a more complicated transfer with further consultation needed before it can go ahead, which may go on the backburner with COVID-19.

With the situation we currently find ourselves in, I can't see many December timetable changes actually being met.

[mikestone]

RE: Abellio East Midlands Railway
The track access application issued recently had firm rights beteen Manchester and Norwich but only contingent rights between Liverpool and Manchester which made me wonder if there had been an unannounced decision for EMR to continue running to Piccadilly , perhaps with a seperate Liverpool-Manchester service to be extended to Sheffield when/if the Hope Valley upgrade happens.

[knutstransport]

RE: Abellio East Midlands Railway

(20/05/2020 19:30)mikestone Wrote:  The track access application issued recently had firm rights beteen Manchester and Norwich but only contingent rights between Liverpool and Manchester which made me wonder if there had been an unannounced decision for EMR to continue running to Piccadilly , perhaps with a seperate Liverpool-Manchester service to be extended to Sheffield when/if the Hope Valley upgrade happens.

Around 13 years ago there was a proposal for a Nottingham-Derby-Stoke-Crewe-Manchester Airport-Manchester service (replacing some existing services in the process.) I wonder if First Group are perhaps looking at resurrecting that proposal?

I seem to recall that idea was dropped when DfT proposed Northern could replace their 323s with a new fleet as well as getting additional EMUs - if that new train order had gone ahead the Manchester-Manchester Airport-Crewe stopper was set to be extended to Stoke instead.

So in the end neither proposal went ahead!

[ant17612]

RE: Abellio East Midlands Railway
170420 has transferred from Haymarket to Crofton Depot for its overhaul into EMR spec.

[ant17612]

RE: Abellio East Midlands Railway
43257/43307 and another rake of Mark 4s were transferred from Neville Hill to Derby Etches Park yesterday.

[ant17612]

RE: Abellio East Midlands Railway
360105 was transferred today from Ilford to Northampton.

[ant17612]

RE: Abellio East Midlands Railway
170420 has been moved from Barrow Hill to Tyseley today in the new purple EMR livery.

[mikestone]

RE: Abellio East Midlands Railway
Running almost full service from 7 September, except for the Robin Hood line, but will not serve Alsager presumably to give cab cleaning time at Crewe.