Commuter flows without a bus (or rail) link

[knutstransport]

Commuter flows without a bus (or rail) link
I was just looking at the Cheshire East local plan and noticed it says there is a significant commuter flow between Warrington and Cheshire East, mainly Knutsford. Yet there is no proper direct public transport link between Warrington and Cheshire East.

I then noticed in another place it referred to one between Handforth and Trafford. Now with the 130 and 88 bus routes being half-hourly that is possible to do on public transport but the lack of integrated ticketing between an Arriva bus and a GHA bus doesn't make public transport attractive.

It also identifies a lack of jobs in Alsager, Congleton, Middlewich, Poynton and Sandbach while an 'abundance' of jobs in Crewe, Handforth and Knutsford, so there's perhaps potential flows which don't exist because of a missing link. Re-opening the Middlewich branch line would help get people to the jobs but maybe a Congleton to either Wilmslow or Knutsford bus alongside the existing services would help?

[wirralbus]

RE: Commuter flows without a bus (or rail) link
Crewe has always had an abundance of businesses around it be they large multinational firms or smaller firms , Handforth and Knutsford is based around there being a lot of wealthy people living in the area and that unfortunately has a saying of money breeds money in this case goods jobs breed more good jobs , you really only have to look at Wilmslow town centre to see that .

Apart from Poynton which I don't know much of to be honest , the other towns noted in the thread above are what look like old industrial towns which seem to be losing there old jobs faster than new ones can be obtained.

[knutstransport]

RE: Commuter flows without a bus (or rail) link

(11/02/2016 16:18)Dentonian Wrote:  I must admit, the timing of this thread is strange, given Cheshire East and now Lancashire are slashing their bus budgets, and given clues on other threads in recent days, the storm clouds are gathering in Greater Manchester moreso than would have been hoped.

Cheshire East have published a revised version of their local plan this week.

In my view (and I know other people have the same view) is the best way to provide a link between Cheshire East and Warrington is for an express bus route between Macclesfield and Warrington via Chelford, Knutsford and Lymm. However, unless an operator chooses to run such a service that isn't going to happen at present due to the 27 service between Knutsford and Macclesfield being commercial and a subsided service not being allowed to compete with a commercial one.

You would think that if significant commuter flows are known to exist that a new bus service to meet that flow could be sustainable in the long term without a subsidy even if it might need a subsidy initially until passenger numbers pick up.

Quote:Handforth is interesting as whilst Handforth itself is also "middle class" (for want of a better term), nearby Colshaw Farm is an overspill estate......a concept that I hear is making a return incidentally.

Same with Knutsford where Longridge exists as an overspill estate and Cheshire East's plans for new housing in their local plan involves building on fields the other side of the road from Longridge, which given the distance from the town centre and what's nearby I would assume would be cheapish housing.

[djb]

RE: Commuter flows without a bus (or rail) link

(11/02/2016 16:47)knutstransport Wrote:  Cheshire East have published a revised version of their local plan this week.

In my view (and I know other people have the same view) is the best way to provide a link between Cheshire East and Warrington is for an express bus route between Macclesfield and Warrington via Chelford, Knutsford and Lymm. However, unless an operator chooses to run such a service that isn't going to happen at present due to the 27 service between Knutsford and Macclesfield being commercial and a subsided service not being allowed to compete with a commercial one.

You would think that if significant commuter flows are known to exist that a new bus service to meet that flow could be sustainable in the long term without a subsidy even if it might need a subsidy initially until passenger numbers pick up.


Same with Knutsford where Longridge exists as an overspill estate and Cheshire East's plans for new housing in their local plan involves building on fields the other side of the road from Longridge, which given the distance from the town centre and what's nearby I would assume would be cheapish housing.

Out of interest, did the report suggest whether the handforth - trafford flow was to trafford borough, or more to trafford park/trafford centre? As there could be potential in a direct service from the wilmslow/handforth area to the tc via wythenshawe then the m56/60. (especially as the only existing service is the 18, which takes the best part of an hour from wythenshawe)

[knutstransport]

RE: Commuter flows without a bus (or rail) link

(11/02/2016 17:00)djb Wrote:  Out of interest, did the report suggest whether the handforth - trafford flow was to trafford borough, or more to trafford park/trafford centre?

Just Trafford the borough which is a big vague.

[knutstransport]

RE: Commuter flows without a bus (or rail) link
In this DfT release it states tendered bus services are said to being in £2.10 for every £1 spent in non-Metropolitan areas and £3.20 per £1 spent in Metropolitan areas (outside London) and £2.50 for every £1 spent in London.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/sy...rvices.pdf

[Olympian]

RE: Commuter flows without a bus (or rail) link

(11/02/2016 11:27)knutstransport Wrote:  I was just looking at the Cheshire East local plan and noticed it says there is a significant commuter flow between Warrington and Cheshire East, mainly Knutsford. Yet there is no proper direct public transport link between Warrington and Cheshire East.

I then noticed in another place it referred to one between Handforth and Trafford. Now with the 130 and 88 bus routes being half-hourly that is possible to do on public transport but the lack of integrated ticketing between an Arriva bus and a GHA bus doesn't make public transport attractive.

It also identifies a lack of jobs in Alsager, Congleton, Middlewich, Poynton and Sandbach while an 'abundance' of jobs in Crewe, Handforth and Knutsford, so there's perhaps potential flows which don't exist because of a missing link. Re-opening the Middlewich branch line would help get people to the jobs but maybe a Congleton to either Wilmslow or Knutsford bus alongside the existing services would help?

Does the plan say that Cheshire East propose to provide any form of public transport to enhance this flow ? All it really says is that either: there are better job opportunities in warrington for the inhabitants of Knutsford or that the 'abundance' of jobs in Knutsford are being filled by people from outside Cheshire East. What it should be saying perhaps is what is needed are better services to Knutsford from WITHIN Cheshire East, perhaps Alsager-Congleton-middlewich-Knutsford and a Crewe-Sandbach-Middlewich-knutsfrd.
Whilst reopening the Middlewich branch might help people get to Knutsford it would surely undermine the existing local bus services towards crewe, were there is currently 3 buses per hour.
Realistically, people are not going to commute anywhere by public transport within the shire counties due to the poor provision of local bus services bearing in mind that most people do not work or live in town centres anymore. For most people the commute will involve 3 journeys each way: home to home town; home town to work town; then work town to place of work. With no integrated ticketing that'll cost at least £45 to £55 a week assuming that you still have buses before 0700 & after 1800 to make it possible of course ! (still can't believe that the last bus out of Northwich to winsford is 1753, what happens to all those buses that finish in Northwich after that time ?)
As for the abundance of jobs in crewe - where are they. Whenever I visit the town it looks more and more derelict. From what I remember of the plans even the 2 office blocks by the bus station were going to come down when the bus station is redeveloped. Cheshire east did provide a service ('well used' according to there reports) to the Businees Park in Crewe (that pink thing operated by D&G) but even that stopped when the funding ran out.
As a matter of intrest how many members on here could commute from home to work and back entirely by public transport ?

[wirralbus]

RE: Commuter flows without a bus (or rail) link
I think the two sides of crewe station seem to have contrasting fortunes. The east side of crewe station seems to be very vibrant with all the business parks and associated developments , but the west side looks a bit down at heel with the housing being more terrace type in nature.

[SNL 824]

RE: Commuter flows without a bus (or rail) link

(12/02/2016 15:57)Olympian Wrote:  As a matter of intrest how many members on here could commute from home to work and back entirely by public transport ?

I'm lucky in that most of the time I'm either on the road or working from home, but when I do have to go to the office it's Neston to Birchwood - theoretically possible by 3? trains and a very long walk - but it would take all day.

[St Helens Rider]

RE: Commuter flows without a bus (or rail) link

(12/02/2016 15:57)Olympian Wrote:  As a matter of intrest how many members on here could commute from home to work and back entirely by public transport ?

I do, I use 1 Bus, 1 Train, then a 10 minute walk. Although my choice is limited due to having a disability which precludes me from driving - I can still get to work in an hour (and some return with 45-50 minutes depending on connections). I go from St Helens to the Wigan Pier area of Wigan.