Merseyrail

[507002]

RE: Merseyrail
Today was just a regular summer Saturday for Merseyrail, far from the highest utilisation of maximum units. Just 46 units out of 59 were used today. Chester races had zero 6 car's which was simply not good enough in the slightest. In the morning the Chester and Ellesmere Port lines had problems which Merseyrail stated were due to, "An abnormally large flow in passengers". Which is pitiful because they new it was Chester races today and they know how busy they are. The Chesters were packed and getting to 18:00 coming back from Chester they were simply appalling. Not only that, going towards Chester in the evening from Liverpool were also crammed and this shows the need that Chester's need at least some 6 car's even when the Chester races aren't on and when they are, all 6 car's should be present.

In complete contrast, the Ellesmere Port line was completely dead, a shuttle service should run all day from Hooton to Ellesmere Port, which would save 2 units and these should then go onto the Chester's to form 6 car's. They would need just 50 units then to make Chester's all 6's on the races and on normal days have half as 6 car's needing just 47. 13 units spare today.

Something needs to be done on the Chester line, packed Chesters and completely empty Ellesmere Ports justify that Chesters should as a minimum have some 6 cars and the Ellesmere Port line should be a shuttle like it is this Thursday and Friday during the golf.

[wirralbus]

RE: Merseyrail
The chester went up the creek when a unit had to be taken out of service due to becoming defective , the back up of services behind this failed unit then exaccerbated the problem .

Im sorry but the passengers on the three smallest lines Ellesmere Port , New Brighton and Kirkby do NOT deserve to either be thrown on services they have to change to or from from or a rail replacement bus service just because it strengthens other services , In your case the 2 units would only have strengthened two of the six sets which would you have strengthened , its the million dollar question , that needs answering ?

There was probably a need to have spare six car sets for the Southport service , as the numerous delays in the evening evidently showed .

[ls1911]

RE: Merseyrail

(13/07/2014 06:16)wirralbus Wrote:  The chester went up the creek when a unit had to be taken out of service due to becoming defective , the back up of services behind this failed unit then exaccerbated the problem .

Im sorry but the passengers on the three smallest lines Ellesmere Port , New Brighton and Kirkby do NOT deserve to either be thrown on services they have to change to or from from or a rail replacement bus service just because it strengthens other services , In your case the 2 units would only have strengthened two of the six sets which would you have strengthened , its the million dollar question , that needs answering ?

There was probably a need to have spare six car sets for the Southport service , as the numerous delays in the evening evidently showed .

I think there's a case for making three of the Chester circuits 6 car on a Saturday,the three being where there's a 15min gap in front.

But I agree,you can't just go cancelling other lines at a moment's notice because the Chesters are busy.
In fact the Ellesmere Ports are very good at mopping up the overflow between Hooton and Liverpool,I didn't see one carrying fresh air at all yesterday.

Another thing to bear in mind is the milage of the units this weekend as the vast majority will be out for the forthcoming Open and the giants.

[wirralbus]

RE: Merseyrail
Could this mean that we could get to a point after the Giants event then that some units will be close to reaching maintainence limits depending on whether everything works to planned , i bet day to dasy unit planning will be made harder if there is any failures during the day , particulary from Thursday onwards.

[ls1911]

RE: Merseyrail

(13/07/2014 07:21)wirralbus Wrote:  Could this mean that we could get to a point after the Giants event then that some units will be close to reaching maintainence limits depending on whether everything works to planned , i bet day to dasy unit planning will be made harder if there is any failures during the day , particulary from Thursday onwards.

I imagine after the giants there'll probably be a few route restricted units at least. The New Brighton or Kirkby lines are normally good candidates for those

[507002]

RE: Merseyrail
It wouldn't be "cancelling other lines at a moment's notice" as it would be implemented as a future timetable change. I never mentioned using replacement bus services, nor having the New Brighton or Kirby lines altered in any way as these lines easily justify having the services they have. To have passengers who pay a lot of money to be crushed on Chester trains and then to have Ellesmere Port trains running which have less than 50 people on at the busiest times of the day is just stupidity. Of course you should favour the busier lines as it makes more people have a better journey. The Ellesmere Port line has by far the fewest people using it according to the Merseyside RUS. The only people you would be inconveniencing by having a shuttle service like this are those at Little Sutton, Overpool and Ellesmere Port which is comparatively a tiny amount of people. Even then the "inconvenience" is minimal as you would connect the Chester's to time the shuttle. This would inconvenience far less people on the Chester line and in general. Even so, Merseyrail easily have the units to run as they do now with just adding three 6 car's to the Chester's that aren't proceeded by Ellesmere Port's. However they don't even do this and it would still not solve the problem of almost empty Ellesmere Port's. To have in the region of 300 people on the Chester's and then around 50 people on the Ellesmere Port you are seemingly justifying? To be quite frank, having six 3 car trains on Chester races is absolutely shameful and cannot be justified by anyone.

On summer Saturdays Merseyrail use 78% of there fleet, on summer Sundays they use 56%, on winter Saturdays they use 61% and on winter Sundays they use a puny 34% of there fleet. Therefore they have plenty of rest days especially using just 20 of a possible 59 trains on the Sunday. First Capital Connect run 41 of there 44 313 trains every Monday-Friday an impressive 93% of there fleet and short formings are rarer than Merseyrail. Merseyrail require 50 of there 59 on a Monday to Friday a smaller 85% number. These trains are part of the same family as the 507's and 508's so the maintenance of the trains should be similar. Therefore this leads to the questioning of Merseyrail's maintenance programme if they are constantly struggling for units.

[wirralbus]

RE: Merseyrail
Its just a no no , as no passenger will want to stand round at Hooton on a cold winters day waiting for a service from Chester , these passengers will eventually be lost to Arriva and Stagecoach bus services which are quite handy to most of them stations .

The service from Liverpool to Ellesmere Port was the only reason at the time the electrification took place as the then cheshire county council said no Ellesmere Port electrification then no Chester electrification .

Just imagine what the service would be like now between Hooton and Chester and Ellesmere Port without electrification.

[ls1911]

RE: Merseyrail
Er that's why I actually agreed with you and said 3 of the Chester circuits should be 6 car. It's been done before and it doesn't affect the Ellesmere Ports at all.

But firstly unit mileage will always play a part. You can't run units indefinitely, they do have to be maintained.

Secondly and what everyone doesn't seem to acknowledge on here is that the whole 3/6 car saga also comes down to two things...cost and profit.

Serco/Abellio are only in it to make money,nothing else.
That's why weekend Southport services are barely ever strengthened, why Chesters are 3 cars, why people who are expecting vast numbers of new stock are in for a shock. Even if there's high unit availability if a toc can get away with running a 3 instead of a 6 they more than likely will take that option.



If they could get away with it I'm pretty sure West Kirbys during the Open would be 3 cars only.

Welcome to the world of the privatised railway...

[LVC]

RE: Merseyrail

(12/07/2014 18:53)507002 Wrote:  13 units spare today.

7 in for repairs/ mods/ overhaul so only 6 were spare actually. 5 of those were on Kirkdale. Given the orange lodge event at Southport personally I think it sensible to have had extra sets available, as any delay in the service could have led to a potentially dangerous situation at Southport.

Quote: a shuttle service should run all day from Hooton to Ellesmere Port, which would save 2 units and these should then go onto the Chester's to form 6 car's

This will simply not happen. Ellesmere Port, Overpool and Little Sutton lose direct services to Liverpool, reduction in frequency from 6 to 4tph between Hooton and Hamilton Square, for only 6 carriages extra per hour between Hooton and Hamilton Square. The only big advantage is at Chester where the capacity would be doubled. All this assuming Merseyrail can find even more spare units to double up the rest of the circuits!

Quote:On summer Saturdays Merseyrail use 78% of there fleet, on summer Sundays they use 56%, on winter Saturdays they use 61% and on winter Sundays they use a puny 34% of there fleet. Therefore they have plenty of rest days especially using just 20 of a possible 59 trains on the Sunday. First Capital Connect run 41 of there 44 313 trains every Monday-Friday an impressive 93% of there fleet and short formings are rarer than Merseyrail. Merseyrail require 50 of there 59 on a Monday to Friday a smaller 85% number. These trains are part of the same family as the 507's and 508's so the maintenance of the trains should be similar. Therefore this leads to the questioning of Merseyrail's maintenance programme if they are constantly struggling for units.

Bizarre that you're criticizing Merseyrails maintenance regime now... I can tell you that the Miles per Casualty figure the 507/508s are achieving now are some of the highest the class has managed, 3 times higher than the 508s managed when operated by Silverlink. You might call it poor maintenance, others including myself will say they are managing their assets sensibly. Merseyrail have the oldest TOC fleet in the country and yet train failures are very rare.

Quote:Serco/Abellio are only in it to make money,nothing else.
That's why weekend Southport services are barely ever strengthened, why Chesters are 3 cars, why people who are expecting vast numbers of new stock are in for a shock

Serco/Abellio will have only limited input regarding new stock. Merseytravel are the ones actually paying for it, so if theres not enough new trains blame them.

[ls1911]

RE: Merseyrail

(14/07/2014 11:26)LVC Wrote:  7 in for repairs/ mods/ overhaul so only 6 were spare actually. 5 of those were on Kirkdale. Given the orange lodge event at Southport personally I think it sensible to have had extra sets available, as any delay in the service could have led to a potentially dangerous situation at Southport.


This will simply not happen. Ellesmere Port, Overpool and Little Sutton lose direct services to Liverpool, reduction in frequency from 6 to 4tph between Hooton and Hamilton Square, for only 6 carriages extra per hour between Hooton and Hamilton Square. The only big advantage is at Chester where the capacity would be doubled. All this assuming Merseyrail can find even more spare units to double up the rest of the circuits!


Bizarre that you're criticizing Merseyrails maintenance regime now... I can tell you that the Miles per Casualty figure the 507/508s are achieving now are some of the highest the class has managed, 3 times higher than the 508s managed when operated by Silverlink. You might call it poor maintenance, others including myself will say they are managing their assets sensibly. Merseyrail have the oldest TOC fleet in the country and yet train failures are very rare.


Serco/Abellio will have only limited input regarding new stock. Merseytravel are the ones actually paying for it, so if theres not enough new trains blame them.

Spot on!