Northern Trains Ltd

[Raawwwrrr!]

RE: Northern Trains Ltd

(12/01/2021 09:27)knutstransport Wrote:  Now that a mass COVID vaccination centre has just opened in Manchester, Northern are responding by axing 60% of Manchester area services from next Monday

They’ve been ordered to by the DfT, as have all the railway companies to reduce costs

[knutstransport]

RE: Northern Trains Ltd

(12/01/2021 11:17)Raawwwrrr! Wrote:  They’ve been ordered to by the DfT, as have all the railway companies to reduce costs

I very much doubt the government has specified that Northern should axe Manchester area services more drastically than in other areas, especially when a number of Manchester area services have run since March 2020.

[wirralbus]

RE: Northern Trains Ltd

(12/01/2021 13:47)knutstransport Wrote:  I very much doubt the government has specified that Northern should axe Manchester area services more drastically than in other areas, especially when a number of Manchester area services have run since March 2020.

At least no one can blame Arriva now , bet they really are happy to have got out when they did .

I reckon its going to be another 12 months before Northern will even be looking at anything that looks a decent timetable.

[mikestone]

RE: Northern Trains Ltd
The whole service is showing as STP on RTT - I would suggest it is 60% of the normal timetable, not a 60% cut.

[Raawwwrrr!]

RE: Northern Trains Ltd

(12/01/2021 13:47)knutstransport Wrote:  I very much doubt the government has specified that Northern should axe Manchester area services more drastically than in other areas, especially when a number of Manchester area services have run since March 2020.

It’s not Manchester specific, it’s the entire UK network

[knutstransport]

RE: Northern Trains Ltd

(12/01/2021 22:59)Raawwwrrr! Wrote:  It’s not Manchester specific, it’s the entire UK network

Manchester area services are being cut more harshly than services in other areas, as was the case towards the end of March 2020. A few stations are being left with no service at all, while the Mid Cheshire, which was supposed to be enhanced to half-hourly all day at the main stations, will just be 2 hourly again, even at peak times.

[wirralbus]

RE: Northern Trains Ltd

(13/01/2021 08:42)knutstransport Wrote:  Manchester area services are being cut more harshly than services in other areas, as was the case towards the end of March 2020. A few stations are being left with no service at all, while the Mid Cheshire, which was supposed to be enhanced to half-hourly all day at the main stations, will just be 2 hourly again, even at peak times.

I really doubt whether any enhanced service will take place when services can be restored , as the railway will be on a big re set when some form of normal service is restored.

[knutstransport]

RE: Northern Trains Ltd

(13/01/2021 09:07)wirralbus Wrote:  I really doubt whether any enhanced service will take place when services can be restored , as the railway will be on a big re set when some form of normal service is restored.

What I'm getting at is based on annual usage it was decided the main stations on the Mid-Cheshire line justified 2 trains per hour to Manchester. Yet despite those much needed additional services not being introduced, Northern have still decided to axe around 60% of the services from the line. On the other hand the Buxton line got it's enhancements and it's 'reduced timetable' is close to what the line had pre-May 2018, with the exception of the earlier finish. The Macclesfield line was another that was supposed to get an enhanced service but didn't and it seems generally that line is keeping roughly the same level of service, again with the exception of the earlier finish.

So that's 3 lines which should ideally have half-hourly services based on pre-COVID demand, two of them are to have hourly services from next week and one is to get 2 hourly from next week. It makes no sense when comparing service levels to passenger demand.

[Raawwwrrr!]

RE: Northern Trains Ltd

(13/01/2021 09:51)knutstransport Wrote:  What I'm getting at is based on annual usage it was decided the main stations on the Mid-Cheshire line justified 2 trains per hour to Manchester. Yet despite those much needed additional services not being introduced, Northern have still decided to axe around 60% of the services from the line. On the other hand the Buxton line got it's enhancements and it's 'reduced timetable' is close to what the line had pre-May 2018, with the exception of the earlier finish. The Macclesfield line was another that was supposed to get an enhanced service but didn't and it seems generally that line is keeping roughly the same level of service, again with the exception of the earlier finish.

So that's 3 lines which should ideally have half-hourly services based on pre-COVID demand, two of them are to have hourly services from next week and one is to get 2 hourly from next week. It makes no sense when comparing service levels to passenger demand.

The Mid-Cheshire line is unable to go to half-hourly. I can’t remember the exact reason off the top of my head but Network Rail have decided that a 2tph for the full day operations is impossible without improvements taking place to the route.

The reason why those lines are dropped is that they are the rural lines where in general there are higher levels of income from jobs that most people will be working from home doing (offfice based) and car ownership is also generally higher. Schools being closed also will not help the situation either. It’s not that Northern have simple decided to become ‘anti-Manchester’ there are service cuts across the entire network as ordered by the DfT and Manchester happens to be one of the largest areas that northern operate, with some of the highest frequencies

[knutstransport]

RE: Northern Trains Ltd

(13/01/2021 13:50)Raawwwrrr! Wrote:  The Mid-Cheshire line is unable to go to half-hourly. I can’t remember the exact reason off the top of my head but Network Rail have decided that a 2tph for the full day operations is impossible without improvements taking place to the route.

The original excuse was they wanted no more services in and out of Manchester following problems created in May 2018 but that didn't mean the Mid-Cheshire couldn't get additional services if other services got reduced or re-routed or if there were infrastructure changes.

There was a proposal for a Chester to Altrincham service as an interim alternative but Network Rail objected to that on the basis that some farm level crossings needed upgrades (which I understand has since happened) and there had concerns about traffic at Mickle Trafford, even though a service 30 minutes after the existing Mid-Cheshire service wouldn't have conflicts and a conflict with the existing Mid-Cheshire and the Leeds-Chester services are more likely if there's late running.

Anyway the point is the demand for 2tph was there in normal times, so why Northern have decided they can provide 1/4 of what was specified as being required is being bizarre. If it was a route which only got 1 train an hour and had very few passengers even normally then it would make sense but that isn't the case.

Quote:The reason why those lines are dropped is that they are the rural lines where in general there are higher levels of income from jobs that most people will be working from home doing (offfice based) and car ownership is also generally higher.

Have you ever seen the Longridge part of Knutsford, Lostock Gralam, Northwich or Greenbank? They are just as much working class areas as Wythenshawe. Much less posh than some areas retaining a more frequent service like Marple, Prestbury, Alderley Edge etc.

One of the problems with that generalisation is it overlooks the fact Knutsford has very few buses, so even though it's only a small market town it gets as much rail usage as some of the densely populated areas just outside Manchester.

Quote:Schools being closed also will not help the situation either.

Schools aren't closed. They remain open for certain children e.g. those who have parents in certain occupations, those with special needs and those without access to facilities for learning from home. They are also generally taking a lot more pupils than under the first lockdown with some schools saying they urgently need the government to reduce the number of pupils allowed to attend as they aren't going to be able to cope if COVID causes staffing shortages. In Cheshire the majority of schoolchildren who live within 2 miles of a station and attend a school near a station on the same line travel to school by train, unlike in Greater Manchester where there are still a high number of designated school buses.

Under the first lockdown Knutsford Academy decided their 188 service could be suspended as no-one needed it, this time it's running and getting quite a few schoolchildren using it.

Quote:It’s not that Northern have simple decided to become ‘anti-Manchester’ there are service cuts across the entire network as ordered by the DfT and Manchester happens to be one of the largest areas that northern operate, with some of the highest frequencies

The routes which didn't return to their full service at the December 20 timetable change are mainly Manchester routes because according to Northern it is the area where COVID has caused the most challenges to their driver training programme.

As you know from what you said earlier in your own post some of the Manchester services have a very high frequency of a whole 1 train per hour and Northern are even cutting those back further. It's nothing to do with how high the frequency is or isn't.