Warrington's Own Buses

[Mayneway]

RE: WBT Network Warrington

(02/12/2017 10:11)Atlanteanfan Wrote:  Do Fairbrother’s operate evenings/weekends?

No but no doubt at weekends and in the evenings the NW services slacken off. What's the frequency of NW's services in the area on a Sunday?? Hourly? You can bet your dollar if Fairbrothers suddenly registered a Sunday service NW would be beefing up there's.

[mtl97]

RE: WBT Network Warrington
I wonder if there was a bus war in Warrington now like in mid 90s would the local people of warrington support their local company like they did just over 20 years ago, these days though I can't see anyone who would want an all out bus war in Warrington now, last time warrington area would of suited arriva as it would now & also these days it would suit stagecoach with the way they have expanded across the north west, it's good though that we still have council owned companies around

[Mayneway]

RE: WBT Network Warrington

(02/12/2017 18:14)mtl97 Wrote:  I wonder if there was a bus war in Warrington now like in mid 90s would the local people of warrington support their local company like they did just over 20 years ago, these days though I can't see anyone who would want an all out bus war in Warrington now, last time warrington area would of suited arriva as it would now & also these days it would suit stagecoach with the way they have expanded across the north west, it's good though that we still have council owned companies around

Your last comment is questionable. Certainly where Network Warrington is concerned anyway. Some of the changes that have implemented have certainly been interesting. Eye watering fare increases that left a lot of passengers extremely angry, network changes that again met with not the best reaction and of course a bail out by the council to keep them afloat. Yet now their in a position to offer discounted fares on the very services they see so much as a bit of minor competition.

I don't think Fairbrothers are in a position to be part of a 'war'. Arriva is as you say most likely but Carnt see it and even Stagecoach look quite contempt with what they have. But who knows...

[iMarkeh]

RE: WBT Network Warrington

(02/12/2017 18:38)Mayneway Wrote:  Your last comment is questionable. Certainly where Network Warrington is concerned anyway. Some of the changes that have implemented have certainly been interesting. Eye watering fare increases that left a lot of passengers extremely angry, network changes that again met with not the best reaction and of course a bail out by the council to keep them afloat. Yet now their in a position to offer discounted fares on the very services they see so much as a bit of minor competition.

I don't think Fairbrothers are in a position to be part of a 'war'. Arriva is as you say most likely but Carnt see it and even Stagecoach look quite contempt with what they have. But who knows...

I think it is very much a war of Link/Fairbrothers vs Network Warrington. Unsure what you guys see but at Warrington bus station, especially in the morning and evening, there are 6 NW buses all parked at the back blocking Fairbrothers and Link from heading there for layover and are even starting to park the staff minibus there on occasions despite Stand 1, 13 and 19 being completely empty for almost all day, everyday. NW are consistently departing late on 16/21 to get those few passengers from Fairbrothers. The reason I mention Link is because the manager at NW knows Link is associated with Mr Fairbrother (MD bus & coach) so throws both eggs in one basket despite Link not being any competition apart from Winwick Road and Sankey Bridges. I would definitely say it is a war. Fairbrothers and Link both can compete with lower prices as premises is cheaper as are driver costs. Though Fairbrothers don't have loads of buses to flood routes and stuff, people will start to wait for the price difference.

Fairbrothers do run on Saturdays though unsure of proper times as the Fairbrothers website says one thing, traveline says something completely different. Again, morning and evenings are slightly different on all the different websites. According to Fairbrothers timetables, the 16 runs early.

Network Warrington are being daft. 2 fares of £2 are much better than 1 fare of £3. Charge high, less people will use the service. 3 has First along it's entirety. Sankey and Penketh already have 8 buses per hour with Arriva, Link on 110 and Arriva 7. 21, 1/2, 16/16A all have competition with Fairbrothers. Also Halton on the way to Stockton Heath. All this competition and yet they are still charging rocket high prices.

I genuinely think it will come to a point where Warrington won't have it's own bus company and it will have to be taken over by Rolta or someone like that because the routes just simply won't be viable if Halton, Arriva, Link or Fairbrothers expand locally. There are quite a few routes which make money and could be jumped on. All the companies need is vehicles, licences and drivers. Sounds like a lot but I think companies can get hold of things a lot quicker these days.

[Bevan Price]

RE: WBT Network Warrington

(02/12/2017 21:03)iMarkeh Wrote:  I think it is very much a war of Link/Fairbrothers vs Network Warrington. Unsure what you guys see but at Warrington bus station, especially in the morning and evening, there are 6 NW buses all parked at the back blocking Fairbrothers and Link from heading there for layover and are even starting to park the staff minibus there on occasions despite Stand 1, 13 and 19 being completely empty for almost all day, everyday. NW are consistently departing late on 16/21 to get those few passengers from Fairbrothers. The reason I mention Link is because the manager at NW knows Link is associated with Mr Fairbrother (MD bus & coach) so throws both eggs in one basket despite Link not being any competition apart from Winwick Road and Sankey Bridges. I would definitely say it is a war. Fairbrothers and Link both can compete with lower prices as premises is cheaper as are driver costs. Though Fairbrothers don't have loads of buses to flood routes and stuff, people will start to wait for the price difference.

Fairbrothers do run on Saturdays though unsure of proper times as the Fairbrothers website says one thing, traveline says something completely different. Again, morning and evenings are slightly different on all the different websites. According to Fairbrothers timetables, the 16 runs early.

Network Warrington are being daft. 2 fares of £2 are much better than 1 fare of £3. Charge high, less people will use the service. 3 has First along it's entirety. Sankey and Penketh already have 8 buses per hour with Arriva, Link on 110 and Arriva 7. 21, 1/2, 16/16A all have competition with Fairbrothers. Also Halton on the way to Stockton Heath. All this competition and yet they are still charging rocket high prices.

I genuinely think it will come to a point where Warrington won't have it's own bus company and it will have to be taken over by Rolta or someone like that because the routes just simply won't be viable if Halton, Arriva, Link or Fairbrothers expand locally. There are quite a few routes which make money and could be jumped on. All the companies need is vehicles, licences and drivers. Sounds like a lot but I think companies can get hold of things a lot quicker these days.

They need more than that - they need a lot of money. It is foolhardy to expand too much unless you have plenty of spare money. Just look at the number of small independent operators that have got into trouble, and ceased operations, because they tried to expand too far, too soon.

Either maintenance standard decline, or operations become unreliable, and they get an invite to the traffic commissioners, or they run out of money and cannot get finance to continue.

[Mayneway]

RE: WBT Network Warrington
Fairbrothers have had 'issues' with the TC recently haven't they?? I wouldn't think NW worry to much about them as there's only so much Fairbrothers can do really. Don't think they would get a VA increase anyway.

Problem with Mr Fairbrother is he comes across as somewhat lazy. Seen him ask his loyal passengers so many times what they want and it's always the same evening and Sunday buses yet nothing comes of it. If your going to take on NW do it properly!
The other issue is the appearance of his fleet. Last time I was in Warrington (in the summer) the fleet was a mismatch of liveries and them god arful destination boards in the window.

[Mayneway]

RE: WBT Network Warrington

(02/12/2017 22:42)Bevan Price Wrote:  They need more than that - they need a lot of money. It is foolhardy to expand too much unless you have plenty of spare money. Just look at the number of small independent operators that have got into trouble, and ceased operations, because they tried to expand too far, too soon.

Either maintenance standard decline, or operations become unreliable, and they get an invite to the traffic commissioners, or they run out of money and cannot get finance to continue.

Just look at the peaceful bus war in Manchester between Stagecoach and First. It's pretty clear they are both loosing money with the flat fares along Oxford/Wilmslow road. Stagecoach gave in first and increased fares from £1 to £1.50 but within days First followed and increased theres to £1.50. It's an expensive business bus wars lol

[T42 PVM (Moderator)]

RE: WBT Network Warrington

(02/12/2017 23:04)Mayneway Wrote:  Fairbrothers have had 'issues' with the TC recently haven't they?? I wouldn't think NW worry to much about them as there's only so much Fairbrothers can do really. Don't think they would get a VA increase anyway.

Problem with Mr Fairbrother is he comes across as somewhat lazy. Seen him ask his loyal passengers so many times what they want and it's always the same evening and Sunday buses yet nothing comes of it. If your going to take on NW do it properly!
The other issue is the appearance of his fleet. Last time I was in Warrington (in the summer) the fleet was a mismatch of liveries and them god arful destination boards in the window.

Fairbrothers only have 8 Ops Disks now after they problems with the TC so i dont think they will be growing anytime soon, I cant blame him for not starting evening and Sunday Buses as Network Warringtons are dead! I do however find it lazy that he is not able to paint all his Buses into one Livery it looks a mess

I also feel that Link Network will expand again soon, my gut feeling is it will be on an Arriva route but it might be one that runs part way along a Network Warrington route

[iMarkeh]

RE: WBT Network Warrington

(02/12/2017 22:42)Bevan Price Wrote:  They need more than that - they need a lot of money. It is foolhardy to expand too much unless you have plenty of spare money. Just look at the number of small independent operators that have got into trouble, and ceased operations, because they tried to expand too far, too soon.

Either maintenance standard decline, or operations become unreliable, and they get an invite to the traffic commissioners, or they run out of money and cannot get finance to continue.

Yes, you need money and I get that side of things. I mean if someone wanted to expand onto a route, it can easilly be done if you have the money. I never said anything about expanding quickly or too far, I just said there are routes that can be jumped on quickly and make money. If a company was in a position to expand, the routes would be easy to register and make money.

(02/12/2017 23:04)Mayneway Wrote:  Fairbrothers have had 'issues' with the TC recently haven't they?? I wouldn't think NW worry to much about them as there's only so much Fairbrothers can do really. Don't think they would get a VA increase anyway.

Problem with Mr Fairbrother is he comes across as somewhat lazy. Seen him ask his loyal passengers so many times what they want and it's always the same evening and Sunday buses yet nothing comes of it. If your going to take on NW do it properly!
The other issue is the appearance of his fleet. Last time I was in Warrington (in the summer) the fleet was a mismatch of liveries and them god arful destination boards in the window.

Now, I wouldn't say it is being lazy. For the duties Mr Fairbrother has so far, it is really easy to have just one driver on all day and take him off for breaks. By the time they have done schools before and after, the driving hours are a little low to go back to service work for such a length of time. IT would require more drivers and also some bosses like to head home and rest easy knowing all the buses are in the depot. When buses are on the road, anything can happen like breakdowns etc. If you don't have someone in the office at that time, the boss would be called. Yes it is a part of business but if Mr Fairbrother doesn't think he can make the money or doesn't think it is worth the hassle running later, that is his decision. Though yes it would help competition and stuff. The schools alone could probably not far off keep Fairbrothers afloat. I think the service runs are just topping up profits or possibly schools make just under the 'break even' line so service again tops it up. I know schools make a lot of money. He can't do earlier really due to the schools which then makes the evenings useless as people will already have returns on Network Warrington.
I do agree about the livery and destination board side of things. I think that could look better but then is that price you pay for cheaper fares? Cheaper fares, cheaper buses. The more money he puts in, the more he needs to make then upping prices.

(02/12/2017 23:22)T42 PVM Wrote:  Fairbrothers only have 8 Ops Disks now after they problems with the TC so i dont think they will be growing anytime soon, I cant blame him for not starting evening and Sunday Buses as Network Warringtons are dead! I do however find it lazy that he is not able to paint all his Buses into one Livery it looks a mess

I also feel that Link Network will expand again soon, my gut feeling is it will be on an Arriva route but it might be one that runs part way along a Network Warrington route

Link Network may expand, they may not... I haven't seen anything about ops disks being increased. I know it takes 3 months for them and nothing has been on N+Ps. Only way it could expand is earlier, later and weekends. Unsure what position they are in to expand but I guess like the 110 you mean, against Arriva but NW runs along the route. I suppose that is a wait and see.

I have heard NW are after the 329 and 360. Truth or rumor, only a few people know (bosses at NW). If it is true, it will be interesting to see what happens.

[M60lad]

RE: WBT Network Warrington
From what I've seen the odd few times I've been in Warrington recently Fairbrothers have stopped using the old destination boards as most if not all of their fleet have got LED displays fitted which give route and fare information on them, the same with Link Network.