First Manchester

[SF07]

RE: First Manchester

(11/08/2017 07:50)JimmyMac Wrote:  Also notices at Bury reporting the 97@1805, 135@1925, 471@1914 to Bolton, 472@1840, 474@1743 were cancelled.

Also notices at Oldham about 83s and 180/184s.

[JimmyMac]

RE: First Manchester
60405 was on the 468 last night - rare visitor to Bury, looked pretty smart from the outside.

[AlexBus12]

RE: First Manchester
After a public meeting yesterday over the saving of the 519, which both representatives from First and Tfgm attended , first seem to have came to the meeting not being prepared for the grilling questions residence asked. Today the labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, did a video while in Bolton supporting the 519 campaign. Probably more of a publicity stunt, but who knows.

[Solo40336]

RE: First Manchester
Former Manchester expat, 69230 has now transferred to Bolton.

[AlexBus12]

RE: First Manchester

(20/08/2017 15:13)Solo40336 Wrote:  Former Manchester expat, 69230 has now transferred to Bolton.

Another single deck replacement to replace a bendy bus..?

[M60lad]

RE: First Manchester
Instead of replacing these bendy buses from other buses from First subsidies why haven't they replaced them with newer or even new vehicles, maybe this is just a short term measure while new buses are sourced and ordered but it just seems a shame that while other Firstgroup subsidies have got new buses recently the only new buses First Manchester got were the ones for Vantage routes.

While I know First Manchester haven't got a bad fleet at the moment it just would be nice for them to get some newer vehicles to replace some of the older fleet especially on tendered work.

[djb]

RE: First Manchester

(21/08/2017 05:15)M60lad Wrote:  Instead of replacing these bendy buses from other buses from First subsidies why haven't they replaced them with newer or even new vehicles, maybe this is just a short term measure while new buses are sourced and ordered but it just seems a shame that while other Firstgroup subsidies have got new buses recently the only new buses First Manchester got were the ones for Vantage routes.

While I know First Manchester haven't got a bad fleet at the moment it just would be nice for them to get some newer vehicles to replace some of the older fleet especially on tendered work.

It wouldn't surprise me if new purchases tail off generally until more detail is known about future franchising.

[NorthernCounties]

RE: First Manchester

(21/08/2017 06:53)djb Wrote:  It wouldn't surprise me if new purchases tail off generally until more detail is known about future franchising.

As i understand it, the question of franchising is why the newer vehicles are slowly being given to other areas in return for older.
What gets me is, first Manchester don't see they're the main reason that we're likely to get franchising and upping the age of the fleet isn't going to help

[Wright Eclipse]

RE: First Manchester

(21/08/2017 05:15)M60lad Wrote:  Instead of replacing these bendy buses from other buses from First subsidies why haven't they replaced them with newer or even new vehicles, maybe this is just a short term measure while new buses are sourced and ordered but it just seems a shame that while other Firstgroup subsidies have got new buses recently the only new buses First Manchester got were the ones for Vantage routes.

While I know First Manchester haven't got a bad fleet at the moment it just would be nice for them to get some newer vehicles to replace some of the older fleet especially on tendered work.

I Think New buses are off the table for most of Firsts operations,apart from the main key areas that have actully made decent profit (think last years profits for Manchester was around £400,000? - that would buy maybe 3 new buses) plus when it comes to deciding what areas are to get new buses,i dont think Manchesters case would be much good for 2 points

- not the highest profts (First are most likely just happy its making some sort of profit but still)
- The key parts of the network that do earn decent money,they could end up loosing thanks to Franchising.

(21/08/2017 15:10)Dentonian Wrote:  It depends what you class as "bad". Up to 59 buses in the fleet will be too old for TFGM tenders by the end of next week (c. 10%). Outside FiM there are very few buses in GM over 15 years old (as of 1/9/17) unless used exclusively on "closed" contracts. Apart from the Presidents at Rusholme (actually, the oldest of the lot) all these 59 and a few more single-deckers besides are fitted with flanneled "bum perches" instead of proper cushioned seats, and barely 40% of the fleet as a whole is less that 8 years old. Investment has only come in fits and starts, and even when an attempt was made to invest significantly in 2012 with 100 Enviro400s, nine were immediately diverted to Plymouth and a further handful have left recently. Similarly, Streetlites from the following year.

Bristol & Leeds are both due most of this years vehicle orders (Think Bristols are slowly starting to be delivered,with Leeds first batch due around autumn) so,depending on what needs to be replaced in their own fleets we could be looking at a large amount of Geminis being moved to different ops,it could end up with Manchester gaining a large ammount of either 2004/5 B7TL or 2007/8/9 B9TLs,what would at least be a decent stop-gap for the next few years whilst this whole franchising debate continues.

[Wright Eclipse]

RE: First Manchester

(21/08/2017 19:40)Dentonian Wrote:  Bearing in mind cross-subsidy is illegal under the 1985 Transport Act, there can't be any "key parts" of the network, if they are only making £400, 000 a year.

I don't know what the equivalent figure for Stagecoach is, as I can only find revenue/profit figures for "UK (regional)" and patronage figures for SGM itself. They claim patronage is 109 million, which seems a bit strange given that services have been cut - so why would loadings rise. Company wide Operating profits are 13.5% (presumably that's before tax) and a comparison with other conurbations where they operate (incl. Merseyside) suggest that Manchester fares are higher than average per mile, bearing in mind that. Concessionary make up is also higher in conurbations than in rural areas, and there is also contract revenue to add on to turnover, which I believe is close to £7 million. If we assume the average fare is, say £1.50, that suggests revenue (fares + concessionary make up + tender subsidy) of about £170 million, so with the average profit margin of 13.5%, you are looking at roundly £20 million profit before Hammond's cut. Trouble is there are so many differences in fares and patronage across the commercial network - itself a major argument for Franchising - that these figures could be way out.

I Know Cross-Subsidy is not allowed,what i ment by "Key parts" i mean routes such as the 409,180/4,17/8 will proberbly be contributing more to the the profits than routes such as 468,58 & 415 (not that these will not be making a profit,just not as much),I Might be totally wrong as the only people would know exactly would be First.

Stagecoach made £9.463m in profits for Manchester,what are still down around 5M from the year before (2015 they made 14.391m - Info from the Company house site) so are able to invest in more new vehicles per year with less a risk,as they already have the profits.