Buses Bill

[buses7675 (Website Founder)]

RE: Buses Bill
HTL for the win, their buses are already green!

[Barney]

RE: Buses Bill

(09/12/2016 13:16)buses7675 Wrote:  HTL for the win, their buses are already green!

Ha! IF it happens the livery will have to be a neutral one to avoid petty squabbling and resentment within the LCR. I recall the outcry when Wallasey and Birkenhead merged to form the new Wirral division in 1970 and when Southport became part of Merseyside and I recall it was the same throughout the other PTE's. No, assuming the main players get most of the franchises it would make inter-depot transfers within the LCR a prohibitively expensive business.

[rod_259]

RE: Buses Bill

(09/12/2016 13:36)Barney Wrote:  Ha! IF it happens the livery will have to be a neutral one to avoid petty squabbling and resentment within the LCR. I recall the outcry when Wallasey and Birkenhead merged to form the new Wirral division in 1970 and when Southport became part of Merseyside and I recall it was the same throughout the other PTE's. No, assuming the main players get most of the franchises it would make inter-depot transfers within the LCR a prohibitively expensive business.

Given that companies spend a fortune building their brand I think it is a rather bad step. Also the varieties of liveries is great unlike London.

[steve517757]

RE: Buses Bill
It is possible... but it does depend on the budget, London tendering has taken ages to get where it is and the bus network operates at over a £600m a year deficit.

London tendering started with a race to the bottom ... older vehicles brought in which were many years older than the incumbent.

Be careful what you wish for

[Barney]

RE: Buses Bill

(09/12/2016 14:02)rod_259 Wrote:  Given that companies spend a fortune building their brand I think it is a rather bad step. Also the varieties of liveries is great unlike London.

London was exempt from deregulation in 1986 but the bus companies were privatised. Initially, the new bus companies were allowed to introduce their own liveries (have a look at Grey-Green's or London Suburban Buses) but the powers-that-be quickly realised that the iconic image of the red London bus was being lost. Consequently, all successful tenders were compelled to paint their buses 90% London red. More recently, that has increased to 100% and the London roundel now also has to be applied. The result of this is that it is virtually impossible to distinguish whether the franchised route is being operated by Arriva, Stagecoach, First, Go-Ahead or any of the other ten or so companies that run buses on London's streets. '

[Barney]

RE: Buses Bill
I found this on the net. Admittedly, the article is almost a year old but the journalist has the argument spot-on in my view.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre...regulation

[Barney]

RE: Buses Bill

(09/12/2016 16:30)Dentonian Wrote:  I don't quite get your drift. Irrelevant of who wins the franchises, the idea is that all would adopt the livery. Also, inter depot swaps would be rare as services and depot allocations would be much more stable than they are now. This indeed, is one of the arguments for Franchising. I can't comment on Merseyside, but things are so bad in GM that about 30% of services change times EVERY Change Date (of which there are 6 a year).

Did you actually mean inter*company* transfers, which would be purely the Operators' choice?

My view is that IF franchising ever happens the LCR would need to adopt a standard livery for all operators. Arriva has depots in five of the six city regions and bus transfers - both short-term and permanent - occur frequently for a whole host of reasons. If a Pulsar or Enviro400 was to be transferred from a Liverpool depot to Wirral or St Helens it would be an unnecessary expense to repaint the bus into a former municipal livery. This actually happened when the county of Merseyside was expanded in 1974. In those days, the central works at Edge Lane painted buses in Liverpool green, St Helens red and white, Southport red and white and Wirral blue and cream. It took another two years before the standard livery of jonquil and verona green was adopted on Merseyside but Manchester was ahead of the game having decided on the orange and white as early as 1970, I believe.

[Barney]

RE: Buses Bill

(09/12/2016 17:02)Dentonian Wrote:  I don't buy the London press, but if ever a journalist or individual article was to persuade me to, it would be this. Incidentally, Owen Jones grew up in Stockport and went to Ridge Danyers College, Marple.

Not sure I get his collegue, Helen Pidd's article about Northerners voting Brexit. The arguments she puts forward for Brexiting are exactly the reasons I voted to Remain.

For once, we agree on two things: Owen Jones and Brexit.

[rod_259]

RE: Buses Bill

(09/12/2016 16:52)Dentonian Wrote:  I think you've actually inadvertantly made two points you probably didn't want to!

Yes companies spend a fortune building their brand.
a. That money would be better spent on keeping fares lower, running more punctual/frequent services or (especially in the case of First) investing in more buses.
b. However you describe the "brand" ie. the company or the individual route, Operators have failed. Their individual names remain mud, even when they did perform well (eg. Stagecoach Manchester 1996-2013). And there is no point in branding buses for routes to the trendy Trafford Centre, and then running them through depressed south Tameside to Hattersley (at least 10611/4 now fully branded and on service 201 today).

Also, more personally to you I suspect; Buses should be run for people - whether its to give non motorists some quality of life, or to give motorists a realistic choice other than congesting our roads. They are not there primarily for the benefit of photographers or Art Students.

No,I didn't. Stagecoach, for example, is one of the most respected brands in the UK, according to surveys. Furthermore, the comment about 'art students' is fatuous as many enthusiasts like to see the variety of liveries.
Unlike London, there are no congestion charges proposed to sunsidise bus travel, as far as I know, so I think, once again, politicians running anything will result in a mess. Booze ups And breweries come to mind.
Finally despite all the left wing tripe, the quality of the fleets I has improved beyond belief so the companies have reasons to be proud of their brands.

[Barney]

RE: Buses Bill

(09/12/2016 18:09)rod_259 Wrote:  No,I didn't. Stagecoach, for example, is one of the most respected brands in the UK, according to surveys. Furthermore, the comment about 'art students' is fatuous as many enthusiasts like to see the variety of liveries.
Unlike London, there are no congestion charges proposed to sunsidise bus travel, as far as I know, so I think, once again, politicians running anything will result in a mess. Booze ups And breweries come to mind.
Finally despite all the left wing tripe, the quality of the fleets I has improved beyond belief so the companies have reasons to be proud of their brands.

Far be it for me defend Dentonian's stance but I do think that one's attitude towards the current bus provision outside of London depends on how old you are and if you can remember pre-deregulaton days. Yes, it is true that on Merseyside, Stagecoach and Arriva have invested heavily over the past few years but, in comparison, fleet renewal is still below what it was in PTE and NBC days. What has changed over the past forty years is that buses used to be Public SERVICE Vehicles and now they are Passenger CARRYING Vehicles and the onus is on profit not need.

Also, I may be totally wrong but I suspect that both Stagecoach and Arriva have upped their game in the past few years since franchising in the provinces was first discussed in Whitehall.