[Archive] Northern (Arriva Rail North)

[motormayhem1]

RE: Arriva Rail North
Ive a feeling the livery will stay and just a change of name on the trains and signage etc.

[RedPanda]

RE: Arriva Rail North

(13/12/2015 18:40)motormayhem1 Wrote:  Ive a feeling the livery will stay and just a change of name on the trains and signage etc.

It's possible, the south always gets more investment in everything and its normally the first to receive it

[RedPanda]

RE: Arriva Rail North

(13/12/2015 19:33)Dentonian Wrote:  Would repainting and re-signage not be classed as "current" spending ie. subsidy, and therefore part of the £1,790,000,000 the tax-payer is contributing over the 9 years of the franchise. Yes, the South East gets more money per head in virtually every aspect of Government spending, but the one exception is Rail subsidies.

How much has the north got compared to the south in rail subsidies for the next ten years? Surely the north gets less and doesn't everybody who works in London live in the south or midlands?

[RedPanda]

RE: Arriva Rail North

(13/12/2015 20:13)Dentonian Wrote:  I don't know the full figures, but I'm sure someone in the know can find them on some DfT related website. I do know that the current Northern Rail franchise costs the highest amount per passenger journey (over £7) of all the franchises in the UK. I did see a comparison on national TV a year or two back and some of the routes into London cost barely £1 ppj. The other side of the coin is that South East rail commuters pay much higher fares per mile and I suspect the longer, faster journeys keep running costs down. Also, they almost certainly don't have free off-peak travel for Concessionaries, or very low fares to compete with commercial bus services, as happens in manchester and Leeds. They probably have more effective revenue control and I would have thought a much broader peak in terms of heavily loaded trains. However, I noticed when Richard Westcott was interviewing commuters at King's Cross at 0800 on the morning that next year's regulated fares were confirmed as capped at Inflation + 1%, the station looked nearly deserted - much like the South East's roads when the BBC do OB's in the morning rush hour!

An interesting read, couldn't we have something like that £1 pp per journey like they have in London?

[wirralbus]

RE: Arriva Rail North
There is too many journeys in northern England that just carry to little , if we was to get anywhere close to that figure of £1 per person per journey there would have to be numerous service cuts which would be disastrous for some areas of the north.

[wirralbus]

RE: Arriva Rail North
I wonder how many of these rural lines that carry small amounts of passengers in Northern England send a Conservative to the House of commons.

[knutstransport]

RE: Arriva Rail North

(11/12/2015 23:49)T42 PVM Wrote:  Was reading that article before, Is it known when Great Western and Scot Rail will be able to release these Trains (assuming their 150s and 156s)

The Scotrail franchise agreement: http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/syst...ersion.pdf states they will release 10 x 156s, 8 x 158s* and 29 x 170s (not including the ones going to Southern.) The 156s and 158s will be released at the end of 2018, the 170s will be released in mid-2018 but they are on a flexible lease so can be extended if the HSTs or new EMUs are delayed.

* The 8 belonging to Angel Trains which were originally supposed to go to Northern Rail.

FGW are releasing their 150/1s, their 153s and their 143s. The latter obviously aren't going to Northern, it's expected all the 150/1s will go to Northern (even the LM ones) will some 153s going to LM in lieu. I'm not sure on the scheduled dates but apparently it's hoped FGW will start to release Sprinters before the end of 2017.

[knutstransport]

RE: Arriva Rail North

(14/12/2015 08:49)Dentonian Wrote:  I think my comments have been totally misunderstood. Under the current franchise, Abellio Northern carry 96 million passengers a year (wikipedia) and are paid £703 million (or £713 if you believe the London Guardian) of tax payers money. Therefore, on average, Northern passengers are subsidised by over *seven* pounds per journey. Down south its as little as £1 per journey. Yes, it is an average, with many passengers travelling medium distances on busy trains, effectively being subisidised to a much lower rate than those on quiet trains in more rural north Yorkshire, or short riders on the Hope Valley line. Nevertheless, it raises the question of whether those thinly used rural lines should be replaced by buses at a much reduced cost to the tax-payer.

While the token services and parliamentaries don't bring in much money for Northern, one of the big causes of the high subsidy is down to low fares in PTE areas, including free rail travel for over 60s. I've heard on the Rose Hill Marple to Manchester you'd roughly need a full 4 car 150 for a service to be profitable, but on other routes where most passengers aren't travelling on PTE tickets/passes a full 2 car 150 can be profitable.

[wirralbus]

RE: Arriva Rail North
Its the low fares that bring in the passengers to these areas though , its a vicious circle , increase the fares and you lose the passengers probably to the motor vehicle .

[SK15 GZG (Moderator)]

RE: Arriva Rail North
CAF will be building the 281 brand new carriages for the new franchise. The deal is being financed by the Eversholt Rail Group:

http://www.arrivarailnorth.org/keeping-y...-franchise