Operator Competition in the North West

[busdude]

Operator Competition in the North West

(19/05/2014 14:55)YK53 GXO Wrote:  New timetable for the 41/42/41A has been released today.

Changes -

Routes 41 and 42: some later Monday to Saturday evening buses are introduced. Monday to Saturday evening and all Sunday daytime Route 41 buses are renumbered 41A and are rerouted to serve Storeton Road, Prenton Lane and Prenton Hall Road in Prenton, instead of a section of Woodchurch Road.

Route 141 and 142: buses are renumbered 41 or 42.

Link - http://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/travellin...014%29.pdf

I think it's harsh the way stagecoach are attacking Avon Buses services, they're rerouting the 38A to make it like Avons 40/40A (which now they are withdrawing), and making the 41A similar to Avons 80.

[jtd508110]

RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral
I don't think it is to be honest. Avon are not a great bus company in my opinion. Poor customer service from a large number of staff, some absolute rattly sheds of busses (when did they last invest in busses younger than 10 years old?) and punctuality is hit and miss too. From a passengers point of view, id prefer stagecoach to run more services than Avon. Maybe with good customer service and some nicer busses (even old B10BLE's) id support a local operator. That is not to say that all Avon staff are bad, just a large quantity of the ones ive encountered are...

[YK53 GXO]

RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral
I don't think Stagecoach want to close Avon down completely, they are only doing it for the £££s.

[Raawwwrrr!]

RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral

(19/05/2014 16:39)YK53 GXO Wrote:  I don't think Stagecoach want to close Avon down completely, they are only doing it for the £££s.

To be honest Stagecoach most likely are trying to close them down and at the least, push them out of the way.
If Avon won't sell out to the bigger companies such as Stagecoach, then quite simply they'll force them out of their turf, or 'convince' them to sell up by underhand tactics. To quote yourself "They are only doing it for the £££s', well by getting rid of Avon altogether they could potentially earn an extra £.

There's quite a few examples of this where it's happened in Manchester with independents such as Dennis's and UK North to name two. Even before they took over GM south, they fought to make them sell out.

[mr t]

RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral
And dont forget the aborted attempt at Preston

[126th street]

RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral

(19/05/2014 17:34)Raawwwrrr! Wrote:  To be honest Stagecoach most likely are trying to close them down and at the least, push them out of the way.

Possibly, but to be frank Avon, like several other operators on Merseyside, would not be missed. They're hardly shining examples of how to run buses.

(19/05/2014 17:34)Raawwwrrr! Wrote:  If Avon won't sell out to the bigger companies such as Stagecoach, then quite simply they'll force them out of their turf, or 'convince' them to sell up by underhand tactics.

Rather a bold assertion, that.

In any case, if Stagecoach or whoever else was to 'force' other operators off routes, or out of business completely, that is tough. Because if they did, they would only be taking advantage of the same deregulation of bus services legislation from way back when that gave these small independent operators the chance to run buses in the first place. Like any business, running buses is a survival of the fittest job.

(19/05/2014 17:34)Raawwwrrr! Wrote:  "They are only doing it for the £££s', well by getting rid of Avon altogether they could potentially earn an extra £.

Of course anything they do is for the money. They're a business, after all.

(19/05/2014 17:34)Raawwwrrr! Wrote:  There's quite a few examples of this where it's happened in Manchester with independents such as Dennis's and UK North to name two.

Stagecoach had nothing to do with the demise of UK North. UK North's failure to comprehend that they needed to at least try to operate within the rules caused their demise, and everyone who shared the roads with their badly-driven, barely-maintained heaps of proverbial should be very glad they are gone.

[wirralbus]

RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral
Merseytravel need a decent independent sector for there ever smaller range of tendered services

[Raawwwrrr!]

RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral

(25/05/2014 10:29)126th street Wrote:  Possibly, but to be frank Avon, like several other operators on Merseyside, would not be missed. They're hardly shining examples of how to run buses.
Rather a bold assertion, that.


Stagecoach had nothing to do with the demise of UK North. UK North's failure to comprehend that they needed to at least try to operate within the rules caused their demise, and everyone who shared the roads with their badly-driven, barely-maintained heaps of proverbial should be very glad they are gone.

I'd disagree with the Avon being "a bad operator", bar the recent additions the newer fleet has been quite smart and well looked after, if the MCV's weren't on a rent-to-buy agreement then there possibly might have been more money over the course of the year to maintain the fleet better.
To be fair I'd say that HTL were worse, they basically 'invested' in new buses that where up to 18 seats less than the previous versions they replaced, and although most of them are the perfect size for some routes, services such as the Garston circulars and 159 received buses too small for purpose (bar the two larger solos). Cumfybus have fell down a steep hill over the past few years also with most buses being a mis-match of panels, windows, moquette, in some cases seating, and in others running buses with no openable windows in the middle of summer.

Stagecoach Manchester did have a small involvement with the demise of UK North.
Stagecoach and UK North basically fought to death over the 192 route. At one point both operators completely brought Piccadilly to a standstill by clogging up the bus stands forcing TfGM to get involved, giving fines to both operators and bringing in new legislation as regards to who can stop where and for how long. Stagecoach also increased frequencies and converted the 192 to Magic Bus, and shortly after UK North was out of the picture, the service got 'converted' to standard operation, and the fares went up as a result.

[wirralbus]

RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral
Think what is trying to be said is that Stagecoach could do a Darlington to the opposition , I do think that most people with an enthusiasm in buses remembers that place. If stagecoach wants it usually finds a way of getting.

[126th street]

RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral

(25/05/2014 11:02)Raawwwrrr! Wrote:  Stagecoach Manchester did have a small involvement with the demise of UK North.
Stagecoach and UK North basically fought to death over the 192 route. At one point both operators completely brought Piccadilly to a standstill by clogging up the bus stands forcing TfGM to get involved, giving fines to both operators and bringing in new legislation as regards to who can stop where and for how long. Stagecoach also increased frequencies and converted the 192 to Magic Bus, and shortly after UK North was out of the picture, the service got 'converted' to standard operation, and the fares went up as a result.

But is it surprising that Stagecoach Manchester responded robustly to an incursion on to the 192? It's clearly a good paying route and it's natural that they would strike back. UK North provided nothing whatsoever that Stagecoach didn't already, and their stupidly low fares have contributed to the instability seen in the South Manchester bus market until recently. And that came from Peter Shipp, someone who knows about these things.

UK North instigated the battle on the 192s and they got what anyone with a modicum of knowledge about running buses could see was coming. As has been said by Dentionian. the end fo UKN came when one of their drivers who could speak either no or very little English killed a bloke who happened to be working in a cherry picker.

Two of its directors then spending time in one of the government's hotels tells its own story. As with one or two others who have gone over the past few years, the bus industry is well rid of UK North.

I agree with your point regarding Cumfybus, however.