Manchester bus franchising

[Barney]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(25/01/2023 12:10)Mayneway Wrote:  The rules haven’t changed YET!
I haven’t said Stagecoach would reduce services what I’ve said is they *could* follow Diamonds game and reduce a couple of busy services to cause the most disruption.
It’s not influencing the tender process as diamond have announced the service reductions/withdrawals after the winning bidders were announced.

Your clearly in favour of franchising but fail to explain why you think Diamond would pull their most profitable service in Manchester and reduce many others months before the depot and services pass to another operator.

You seem to have missed something: the rules have changed. Do you really think that if Stagecoach adopted a scorched earth policy it would benefit it in any way in the future round of bids?

Yes, I am very much in favour of franchising, not just in the TfGM area but also across the UK. As to why Diamond has pulled their "most profitable routes" I have no idea and don't need to explain that decision. Perhaps you can.

[Mrboo]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(25/01/2023 15:25)Winston Wrote:  Rotala are re-deploying 25 x DBNW Streetdecks to Diamond WM (Tividale x 20 & Redditch x 5) during April, in time for when all vehicles in the West Midlands need to be Euro 6 from 1/5/23. There may be a few other odd Euro 6 buses leaving DBNW for WM too, still tbc.

Rotala need to retain a larger double contingent in their Group fleet going forward, to allow them to be able to bid for Tranches 2 & 3 of TfGM Franchises.

And they think they will get any more work off TFGM.

They were lucky to get some this round but I am sure it was just due to a deal behind closed doors.

[M60lad]

RE: Manchester bus franchising
Be odd seeing deckers on Diamond's Tividale routes as that depot has been mostly singles/minibuses for as long as I can remember although I know there's some routes that they operate that could warrant the odd decker on it.

[Winston]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(26/01/2023 02:22)Mrboo Wrote:  And they think they will get any more work off TFGM.

They were lucky to get some this round but I am sure it was just due to a deal behind closed doors.

Stagecoach aren't selling TfGM their Wigan depot or any of its fleet, are they protesting too? Not sure what they intend to do with Wigan depot after September?

Two of the small franchises still haven't been awarded that I'm aware of, due to non compliant bids from another operator & Rotala could be awarded a maximum of 7 of the 9 small franchises available.

Rotala needs circa 40 x Euro 6 buses for their West Midlands operation by 1/5/23 to comply with TfWM requirements, it makes sense for Rotala to redeploy existing Euro 6 buses from within Group & they can't wait until GNW takeover Bolton in September. Agreement could still be reached with TfGM to retain the proposed services up for withdrawal / reduce propsed frequency cuts.

The Streetdecks will go on the 002, 16A, 45 from Tividale & 50 from Redditch depot.

[Barney]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(26/01/2023 02:22)Mrboo Wrote:  And they think they will get any more work off TFGM.

They were lucky to get some this round but I am sure it was just due to a deal behind closed doors.

Understandably, after years of senior UK politicians lying through their teeth, it is not surprising that there is a general cynicism with politics and a belief that honesty, openness and integrity in public office no longer exists.

However, if you have a shred of evidence that the bidding process for the first tranche was flawed and illicit deals were done "behind closed doors", for the benefit of all the unsuccessful operators, you really should put this information into the public domain.

[Michael]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(26/01/2023 09:25)Winston Wrote:  Stagecoach aren't selling TfGM their Wigan depot or any of its fleet, are they protesting too? Not sure what they intend to do with Wigan depot after September?

Two of the small franchises still haven't been awarded that I'm aware of, due to non compliant bids from another operator & Rotala could be awarded a maximum of 7 of the 9 small franchises available.

Rotala needs circa 40 x Euro 6 buses for their West Midlands operation by 1/5/23 to comply with TfWM requirements, it makes sense for Rotala to redeploy existing Euro 6 buses from within Group & they can't wait until GNW takeover Bolton in September. Agreement could still be reached with TfGM to retain the proposed services up for withdrawal / reduce propsed frequency cuts.

The Streetdecks will go on the 002, 16A, 45 from Tividale & 50 from Redditch depot.

The 2 small francises have been awarded to Go North West the other 7 to Diamond

[Winston]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(26/01/2023 10:30)Michael Wrote:  The 2 small francises have been awarded to Go North West the other 7 to Diamond

Thanks, wasn't aware that bit had been confirmed.

[Mrboo]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(26/01/2023 09:39)Barney Wrote:  Understandably, after years of senior UK politicians lying through their teeth, it is not surprising that there is a general cynicism with politics and a belief that honesty, openness and integrity in public office no longer exists.

However, if you have a shred of evidence that the bidding process for the first tranche was flawed and illicit deals were done "behind closed doors", for the benefit of all the unsuccessful operators, you really should put this information into the public domain.

Non of the buses at stagecoach east Manchester ( Wigan) are worth buying for continue use. Unlike Bolton with a new fleet. Don't know what going on with arriva junk. Does anyone know what's going on with Atlantic travel vehicles. But is the stagecoach depot able to be kitted out easy for electric buses or was there talks with stagecoach behind scenes to not buy for the them sell to a developer. Now the one to keep eye on is Stockport as Stagecoach has invested in a new depot for electric buses and paid for some of the fleet on order with TFGM

[knutstransport]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(26/01/2023 22:21)Mrboo Wrote:  Non of the buses at stagecoach east Manchester ( Wigan) are worth buying for continue use. Unlike Bolton with a new fleet. Don't know what going on with arriva junk.

Of course Stagecoach, Arriva and First have operations all over the country and regularly cascade vehicles, with the latter two tending to keep vehicles for as long as they can, rather than selling them when they start to get old.

While the GM operators may not want the Enviro 200s at Wigan, they'll be loads of interested parties if Stagecoach were to put them up for sale.

[Mayneway]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(25/01/2023 22:26)Barney Wrote:  You seem to have missed something: the rules have changed. Do you really think that if Stagecoach adopted a scorched earth policy it would benefit it in any way in the future round of bids?

Yes, I am very much in favour of franchising, not just in the TfGM area but also across the UK. As to why Diamond has pulled their "most profitable routes" I have no idea and don't need to explain that decision. Perhaps you can.

The rules haven’t charged yet. They change in one area in September. It’s no secret that several operators are unhappy with who’s won what, and the withdrawal of one of their busiest most profitable services 8 months before they are forced to hand everything over to another operator it is seen as a way of running things down while TFGM can only look on.
I’m no cynic but as a time served driver in Manchester with years of watching TFGM miserably fail at things the whole network in their hands will be a disaster. They have spent years running down the bus network with a fixation on the tram network. Sadly there will be two big losers in all this, the regular bus user and us council tax payers who will all be forced to stump up more money to keep it going.