Go Goodwins

[60301]

RE: Go Goodwins

(03/06/2022 06:04)M60lad Wrote:  As for the TfGM Hybrids its not just Little Gem that have lost theirs, I know that since the timetable/tender changes Diamond Northwest lost theirs and only recently it seems that Vision Bus have stopped using theirs as it seems 13 May was the last time they were used in active service.

Does anybody know what's happened to these TfGM Hybrids and where they might be being stored?

It was mentioned in late 2021 that the green/silver TfGM Optare Solo/Versa V970 hybrids would be withdrawn from the April 2022 tender/timetable change along with some of the yellow Optare Versa V1110 school vehicles..

Several reasons were mentioned including the condition and increasing maintenance requirements and cost to repair/maintain. Another reason given was the ending of the contract between TfGM and Optare, although some people have disputed this due to the continuation of the repair/maintenance/operation of the remaining Optare fleet on schools and Manchester Free Bus (including the 3 electric Versas). I remember being told years ago that the initial contract was for 15 years to coincide with TfGM's age limit for vehicles on tendered services. With the hybrids entering service in 2010 starting from 60 plate this would mean the contract was not due to expire for another 3 years yet.

The most popular - and probable - reason that I have heard for the withdrawal of the Optare Solos and Versas is the previously announced, and muchly controversial, introduction of the Clean Air Zone and the required change in vehicle standards. Although the scheme is now under review/on hold/being scrapped, the initial start date was 31st May 2022. Withdrawing them from April 24th at the same time as all the other changes to tenders, timetables, routes etc etc would have been a lot easier. I know some operators used them for a couple of weeks longer (as you mentioned, Vision Bus ran them until mid-May) but this would have been while they waited for replacement vehicles to be brought in and readied for service. To my knowledge all of the green hybrids were replaced, withdrawn and either returned or were VOR awaiting return to TfGM/Optare well ahead of the intended CAZ start date of 31st May.

This would also explain why only some of the vehicles were withdrawn and why those other TfGM Optares remain in operation. In my eyes, if the maintenance contract between TfGM and Optare had ended then
a) surely all Optares would be withdrawn (with those still suitable for use being sold) and
b) If there was an indication that the contract would not be renewed at it's expiry I would have thought the newer Free Bus/electric vehicles would have been sourced from a different manufacturer.

The withdrawn vehicles are the older 60/11/61 plate Solos and Versa V970s in the green/silver livery (and the two 11 plate Versas in blue/silver ex-Bolton Metroshuttle livery). I don't think any of the yellow school versas have been withdrawn yet. This may or may not happen at the end of the school year next month. I would imagine that if any are to go, it would be the 12 plate ones. The others are a couple of years newer. I suppose that will depend on the condition of the vehicles and, more importantly, if they have been upgraded to meet the standards for required emissions and other requirements. As I say, the vehicles are not 15 years old yet so it's not an old age retirement (although they're in worse condition than some vehicles twice their age...). The remaining school buses and GNW Free Buses are 14/64 plate or newer.

[Mayneway]

RE: Go Goodwins
As far as I’m aware the contract was 15 years, but going back 2 years one of the senior optare technicians told me they were pushing for more money as TFGM were reluctant to spend any money on them. In many occasions insisting Optare sourced second hand spares rather than new.
Clearly the decision was taken recently to not pay Optare any extra and instead withdraw the vehicles.
It will be very interesting to see if they are sold or scrapped.

[60301]

RE: Go Goodwins

(04/06/2022 22:00)Mayneway Wrote:  It will be very interesting to see if they are sold or scrapped.

Depending on the condition i'd say we'll probably see a bit of both.

I know Versa YJ11 EMF has already found a new home. Starting out at Maytree Travel it passed with the contract to Cumfybus Bolton in 2013 then onto Vision Bus in 2018. It was withdrawn in early 2020 (and replaced with the refurbished YJ60KC* solos (cascaded from Manchester Metroshuttle). A couple of months ago it was sold and is now back with Cumfybus at the Aintree depot for the Merseytravel routes. It wouldn't surprise me if this hybrid was sent or conversion to full electric.

[T42 PVM (Moderator)]

RE: Go Goodwins

(05/06/2022 00:02)60301 Wrote:  Depending on the condition i'd say we'll probably see a bit of both.

I know Versa YJ11 EMF has already found a new home. Starting out at Maytree Travel it passed with the contract to Cumfybus Bolton in 2013 then onto Vision Bus in 2018. It was withdrawn in early 2020 (and replaced with the refurbished YJ60KC* solos (cascaded from Manchester Metroshuttle). A couple of months ago it was sold and is now back with Cumfybus at the Aintree depot for the Merseytravel routes. It wouldn't surprise me if this hybrid was sent or conversion to full electric.

This is not at Cumfybus, A Bus simply tracked as it on Bus Times.

[knutstransport]

RE: Go Goodwins

(04/06/2022 22:00)Mayneway Wrote:  In many occasions insisting Optare sourced second hand spares rather than new.

While I'm no expert in vehicle repairs, I would have thought the main advantage of Optare having a contract to maintain the vehicles is they can't say new parts are no longer available for that old model, meaning you don't have to resort to getting parts from a scrap yard.

[Mayneway]

RE: Go Goodwins

(05/06/2022 08:49)T42 PVM Wrote:  This is not at Cumfybus, A Bus simply tracked as it on Bus Times.

I was going to say I’d be very surprised if any saw future use I certainly wasn’t aware of cumfybus having any.

[Mayneway]

RE: Go Goodwins

(05/06/2022 08:49)knutstransport Wrote:  While I'm no expert in vehicle repairs, I would have thought the main advantage of Optare having a contract to maintain the vehicles is they can't say new parts are no longer available for that old model, meaning you don't have to resort to getting parts from a scrap yard.

You’d think!
Optare had to get permission off TFGM before fitting any new parts. It was all done on a shoe string.
When I was at MCT we had two Hybrid Versa’s ENR/ENP. They rocked so much they would give you sea sickness. Both needed new level valves which would stabilise them and stop the rocking. They refused to replace them stating they were serviceable.

For me personally it got so bad when a Versa was taken down to them at Trafford park with panel damage and was returned a week later with strips of gaffer tape over the damage.

[60301]

RE: Go Goodwins

(05/06/2022 18:48)Mayneway Wrote:  When I was at MCT we had two Hybrid Versa’s ENR/ENP. They rocked so much they would give you sea sickness. Both needed new level valves which would stabilise them and stop the rocking. They refused to replace them stating they were serviceable.

YJ11 ENR at MCT was the first vehicle I ever drove in passenger service after passing my PCV driving test and completing my route learning in 2016! It was strange as I used to travel to work in a previous career on the same bus when it was at Maytree in Bolton. I remember it still had a couple of old Maytree stickers in the cab.

You're right though. It did feel like I was steering the Titanic.

[Mayneway]

RE: Go Goodwins

(06/06/2022 12:34)60301 Wrote:  YJ11 ENR at MCT was the first vehicle I ever drove in passenger service after passing my PCV driving test and completing my route learning in 2016! It was strange as I used to travel to work in a previous career on the same bus when it was at Maytree in Bolton. I remember it still had a couple of old Maytree stickers in the cab.

You're right though. It did feel like I was steering the Titanic.

It was shocking ENR and ENP were just terrible. Strangely the others, in particular the ones on the Stockport free bus were a pleasure to drive.

[Mayneway]

RE: Go Goodwins
The Warrington base of Maynes coaches has passed back to the Mayne family for redevelopment so all coach operations are now at Goodwins Eccles base. The majority of the bus operation has moved to Maynes previous Clayton base off Fairclough street behind the velodrome. The yard is quite scruffy and rundown so it’s not known whether its permanent or temporary but they are advertising for drivers ‘based at their NEW Clayton depot’.