Transport for Wales Rail

[knutstransport]

RE: Transport for Wales Rail

(24/07/2021 16:43)wirralbus Wrote:  Bidston - Wrexham line service seems to be a line that is in the back of everyones mind .

The first word is the issue. Liverpool to Wrexham via the Wirral would be a useful route, the change at Bidston puts people off, despite the frequent Merseyrail service. Bidston isn't exactly a station where you'd want to spend a lot of time at if an onward service to Wrexham is delayed or cancelled.

[wirralbus]

RE: Transport for Wales Rail

(25/07/2021 11:37)knutstransport Wrote:  The first word is the issue. Liverpool to Wrexham via the Wirral would be a useful route, the change at Bidston puts people off, despite the frequent Merseyrail service. Bidston isn't exactly a station where you'd want to spend a lot of time at if an onward service to Wrexham is delayed or cancelled.

The next problem if you do accept the service needs to go into the Liverpool loop is the Liverpool loop signalling could it consistently take 16 to 18 trains an hour depending on time of day , Axle Counters seem to be a problem at the moment in the Liverpool Loop .

[507022]

RE: Transport for Wales Rail

(24/07/2021 16:43)wirralbus Wrote:  Bidston - Wrexham line service seems to be a line that is in the back of everyones mind .

How long are the signalling sections on the line between Bidston and Shotton , as this is the end of the line seems to struggle if the service gets behind time , when the service will run between Wrexham and Shotton , crossing over at Dee Marsh and returning back to Shotton.

In the 153 era , it was not unknown for both 153's to be connected and for the service to operate every 2 hours to give the service some more ooomph.

Also we had the silly timetable until recently were the service to Wrexham Central was given 62 minutes to complete the route , but hey presto something magical happened at Wrexham as the return working took 58 minutes , so if you add the running time together its 120 minutes with no recovery time whatsoever, hence the short running .

You can imagine the Tfw train crew not being in any hurry at certain times of the day as TfW control down in Cardiff would say this journey is terminating at Shotton with onward Coach service to Bidston , a bus service would take considerably longer and in the end would lose the goodwill of the passengers for Neston and Heswall , and to a lesser extent the least used station on Merseyside of Upton.

Up to the 1970s, the Wrexham service ran to New Brighton, along with those from Chester Northgate until that station closed, then they were diverted to Birkenhead North. I feel that would be a better option than what exists at present, even though it would need more units to work the service. It would offer passengers a more reliable service to Birkenhead and Liverpool

[FireFly209]

RE: Transport for Wales Rail

(25/07/2021 12:37)507022 Wrote:  Up to the 1970s, the Wrexham service ran to New Brighton, along with those from Chester Northgate until that station closed, then they were diverted to Birkenhead North. I feel that would be a better option than what exists at present, even though it would need more units to work the service. It would offer passengers a more reliable service to Birkenhead and Liverpool

Personally, I agree that Birkenhead North would make a much better terminus over Bidston, for a number of reasons. Firstly, there’s three platforms at this station - platform 3 for West Kirby and New Brighton, and platform 2 for Liverpool. However, platform 1 sees very little use, and would make an ideal terminating platform for the Wrexham services. It would allow a train to wait for its departure time without getting in the way of any Merseyrail services. Granted, to make this actually work, it would require the installation of a crossover at the west end of the station, and a platform signal for trains to be able to depart in the Wrexham direction from this platform, which might be a sticking point for this. However, the second big advantage is better connections - suddenly you’re connecting with twice as many Merseyrail services to/from Liverpool, making the Wrexham route more accessible.

In terms of timetables, and the plan to increase to a half-hourly service, I feel they would be more successful running 5 units on a every half hour frequency, with 15 minutes layover time at each end - this would build a far greater resilience into the timetable, and would also provide flexibility for if/when new stations eventually get added to the route in the Wirral end of the route. If it were to hypothetically return to terminating at Birkenhead North, this would have also fitted in well with the old 15-minute frequency of the West Kirby and New Brighton lines, as there was a 10 minute gap at Birkenhead North every 15 minutes which this 15 minute layover would have slotted perfectly into. Though, now those two routes are on 20-minute frequency, it’s a little more complicated than that - but that’s for better minds than mine to work out... The issue with this concept, though, is that this would require a fifth unit to run - which would cost more in daily running costs. Plus, there’s the previously mentioned signalling issues which would be even worse with five units in use, plus freights...

[iMarkeh]

RE: Transport for Wales Rail

(25/07/2021 23:09)FireFly209 Wrote:  Personally, I agree that Birkenhead North would make a much better terminus over Bidston, for a number of reasons. Firstly, there’s three platforms at this station - platform 3 for West Kirby and New Brighton, and platform 2 for Liverpool. However, platform 1 sees very little use, and would make an ideal terminating platform for the Wrexham services. It would allow a train to wait for its departure time without getting in the way of any Merseyrail services. Granted, to make this actually work, it would require the installation of a crossover at the west end of the station, and a platform signal for trains to be able to depart in the Wrexham direction from this platform, which might be a sticking point for this. However, the second big advantage is better connections - suddenly you’re connecting with twice as many Merseyrail services to/from Liverpool, making the Wrexham route more accessible.

In terms of timetables, and the plan to increase to a half-hourly service, I feel they would be more successful running 5 units on a every half hour frequency, with 15 minutes layover time at each end - this would build a far greater resilience into the timetable, and would also provide flexibility for if/when new stations eventually get added to the route in the Wirral end of the route. If it were to hypothetically return to terminating at Birkenhead North, this would have also fitted in well with the old 15-minute frequency of the West Kirby and New Brighton lines, as there was a 10 minute gap at Birkenhead North every 15 minutes which this 15 minute layover would have slotted perfectly into. Though, now those two routes are on 20-minute frequency, it’s a little more complicated than that - but that’s for better minds than mine to work out... The issue with this concept, though, is that this would require a fifth unit to run - which would cost more in daily running costs. Plus, there’s the previously mentioned signalling issues which would be even worse with five units in use, plus freights...

I think for your first point, the key issue is money. It's financially very difficult to justify the costs and then, add in the lack of time. You would need the 5th unit. On a line which can already struggle financially, you don't want to then put more costs in with little reward. Yes improved connections but the line already works out so that there is a connection onto the West Kirkby train so with the exception of New Brighton, you shouldn't get to Liverpool any quicker.

As for your point on timetables, from what the recent track access consultation says, it kind of implies that trains will do southbound all stops, northbound semi fast or vice versa so there will be more layover in the timetable. Also when the timing loads get changed for the D train whenever that may be in the future, the journeys should be faster due to the acceleration and braking which then further helps the layover problem.
A 5th train shouldn't cause any extra issues with paths since it's layover and neither end of the line has freight which it would affect. The frequency remains the same as well. I don't think it would have any additional impact on freight.

[wirralbus]

RE: Transport for Wales Rail
Heswall Station suffers from its placement to the settlement of said name which is a good distance away , hence the original name Heswall Hills

[313201]

RE: Transport for Wales Rail
I think the Wrexham - Bidston services would need to use platform 3 at Birkenhead North as the west kirby/ new brighton services use platform 1 outbound and platform 2 inbound to liverpool.

The Wrexham service would likely have to terminate at platform 3, get a path to run on the liverpool bound track passed the crossover for platform 1 then run into platfofm 1 from where it would leave towards Bidston and on to Wrexham.

In respect of the new crossover being installed if the procedure above was not possible, it would probably have to be installed round by the straight section where merseyrail services pick up speed.

The only other option would require some wrong line running to where the west kirby & new brighton lines diverge off to their respective destinations and there is also a crossover that the merseyrail trains use when they run ecs to Birkenhead North to enter the depot tracks once the driver has changed ends to drive the merseyrail train into the depot, however, this could lead to operational issues so it would likely have to be the installation of a new crossover that would allow the Wrexham train to leave from platform 3 and once on the the liverpool bound track in the west kirby direction will then cross to the outbound track ( hope this all makes sense ) and on to Bidston and Wrexham.

[507022]

RE: Transport for Wales Rail
Platform 1 is the one that trains from the depot use on the island platform and 3 is for trains to West Kirby and New Brighton. The crossover that was there before the IECC came in in 1994 would need to be put back to return from platform 1 (or 2) but I can’t see Network Rail doing that any time soon.
You’re right in saying they could use the crossover on the east side of Birkenhead North but that could affect the Merseyrail services and connections and wouldn’t be popular.

[SNL 824]

RE: Transport for Wales Rail
Witnessed some atrocious driving from pats coaches on the Bidston RR yesterday in Neston at 3pm. Driver pulled across two lanes away from the station without signalling and cut up a motorist who had to brake sharply to avoid collision. to add insult to injury driver got off coach to abuse the motorist, blocking both lanes of traffic for several minutes. TfW should perhaps look at factors other than cost when awarding contracts... would not have felt safe if I'd been on the coach with that driver

[iMarkeh]

RE: Transport for Wales Rail

(19/08/2021 00:55)SNL 824 Wrote:  Witnessed some atrocious driving from pats coaches on the Bidston RR yesterday in Neston at 3pm. Driver pulled across two lanes away from the station without signalling and cut up a motorist who had to brake sharply to avoid collision. to add insult to injury driver got off coach to abuse the motorist, blocking both lanes of traffic for several minutes. TfW should perhaps look at factors other than cost when awarding contracts... would not have felt safe if I'd been on the coach with that driver

TFW do not award contracts directly, they request the buses from Abellio Rail Replacement who then contract it out. Please, if you have a complaint, report it so it can be investigated.

TFW nor Abellio can be on the road at all times watching every single bus. If it's reported, hopefully CCTV will get it and shine a light on the situation.