Greater Manchester Franchising

[Mrboo]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising
But they have a base price what it will cost per bus as we have the Free City bus that does not take fares, also we pay as it is for number of services that dont make money for the open market so they have to be paid any way.

Will routes iike 192,203,42,250 take the money to pay for lower used routes. What no one is looking at is much does it cost today to run all Manchester buses so it be. Good routes take X pounds and poor routes take X pounds so then all that money goes in pot then we take money that would of been paid anyway and that goes in pot. That is then the pot to run all services now it should cost same as today as the poor routes will be paid by the busy routes. So apart from setup costs running it all should be same so long as bus firms dont get allowed to make bids to make more money then today.

[Mikeonthebuses]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising
I have been doing some behind the scenes networking on routes I would like to see operating in greater manchester now TFGM has taken control and I'm currently looking at 1986 routes and modernising them for the 21st century.

would this be a feed to share my ideas on routes I would like restored but probably get a partial replacement

[Mayneway]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising

(31/03/2021 06:58)Mikeonthebuses Wrote:  I have been doing some behind the scenes networking on routes I would like to see operating in greater manchester now TFGM has taken control and I'm currently looking at 1986 routes and modernising them for the 21st century.

would this be a feed to share my ideas on routes I would like restored but probably get a partial replacement

Do you really think TFGM will really introduce a load of routes lost years ago?? I can’t see it.

[dounowhoiam]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising

(30/03/2021 22:58)Mayneway Wrote:  As a bus driver in Manchester in Manchester I’d disagree completely with your comments above. Bus usage levels have varied but they haven’t been anything like what they were pre covid. During the initial lockdown it was actually quite scary how quiet evening peak journeys were. Yes numbers have increased slightly but I’d say they are no where near what they were before the pandemic and I honestly think they will take a long time to get any where near what they once were.

Private used car sales are up. The value of second hand cars is up because of demand and car dealerships despite being closed for 60% of the lockdown have also reported a surge in sales. Peoples patterns have changed. Shoppers now shop on line, keyworkers who once used public transport now drive to and from work and city centre office workers now work from home using WiFi and zoom etc.
There’s never going to be a day when we are told it’s suddenly safe to go about business as normal and people are unlikely to fall back into old ways. Yes patronage will rise again but I don’t think you can ever truly repair the damage that’s been done.

Establishments like cinemas, restaurants, nightclubs, pubs which generally have been what evening buses help to cater for haven't been open or if so have had reduced capacity which is why the numbers are so low.

Due to social distancing, peak buses are reaching capacity much quicker despite the lower numbers. Office based staff can primarily work from home rather than commuting via car but there will still be key workers like myself who do go by bus for work.

One thing to also note is that the Council have reclaimed some of the city centre car parks, and as part of their environmental changes may make it more difficult/costly for those still commuting into the city centre:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/...3-19141302
As the availability of used cars dwindles and regulation on petrol/diesel strictens, it may make it more appealing to commute via public transport. The key is that services need to be made appealing with reassurances that it is safe to use.

We won't know the full path of usage until time after lockdown has elapsed, but as long as the services are still there once the passenger's need them that is what matters.

[Barney]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising

(31/03/2021 10:25)Mayneway Wrote:  Do you really think TFGM will really introduce a load of routes lost years ago?? I can’t see it.

I can't comment on the bus network in Manchester but in Liverpool I would suggest that 90% of the services that operate today run along 85% of the routes that operated prior to deregulation.

Immediately after deregulation the main incumbents - Merseybus and North Western (Ribble) - along with new major players such as Fareway, CMT, Liverline, Liverbus experimented with innovative major route changes. However, within 15 years the route network eventually returned to a network that essentially mirrored the MPTE one in 1985 and generally using the same route numbers.

Assuming that franchising is introduced on time, I cannot envisage a situation where TfGM will draw up a totally new network as I am sure that it recognises that Stagecoach, Go Northwest, Arriva and First managers DO have a good idea of what works.

Initially, I think that the main focus will be on frequency, hours of operation and fares.

[Mayneway]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising

(31/03/2021 12:31)dounowhoiam Wrote:  Establishments like cinemas, restaurants, nightclubs, pubs which generally have been what evening buses help to cater for haven't been open or if so have had reduced capacity which is why the numbers are so low.

Due to social distancing, peak buses are reaching capacity much quicker despite the lower numbers. Office based staff can primarily work from home rather than commuting via car but there will still be key workers like myself who do go by bus for work.

One thing to also note is that the Council have reclaimed some of the city centre car parks, and as part of their environmental changes may make it more difficult/costly for those still commuting into the city centre:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/...3-19141302
As the availability of used cars dwindles and regulation on petrol/diesel strictens, it may make it more appealing to commute via public transport. The key is that services need to be made appealing with reassurances that it is safe to use.

We won't know the full path of usage until time after lockdown has elapsed, but as long as the services are still there once the passenger's need them that is what matters.

But again how can we talk about life after lockdown when we have just been told there is every possibility of a third lockdown.
And my comment about buses being quieter in the evenings, they are generally quieter during the day. Yes they get slightly busier at peak but nothing like what they were pre covid.

[Mayneway]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising

(31/03/2021 12:44)Barney Wrote:  I can't comment on the bus network in Manchester but in Liverpool I would suggest that 90% of the services that operate today run along 85% of the routes that operated prior to deregulation.

Immediately after deregulation the main incumbents - Merseybus and North Western (Ribble) - along with new major players such as Fareway, CMT, Liverline, Liverbus experimented with innovative major route changes. However, within 15 years the route network eventually returned to a network that essentially mirrored the MPTE one in 1985 and generally using the same route numbers.

Assuming that franchising is introduced on time, I cannot envisage a situation where TfGM will draw up a totally new network as I am sure that it recognises that Stagecoach, Go Northwest, Arriva and First managers DO have a good idea of what works.

Initially, I think that the main focus will be on frequency, hours of operation and fares.

Over the last 10 years a lot of subsidised services have been dropped altogether. Some commercial services rerouted to fill the gap but there seems to be some people, mainly enthusiasts that think TFGM are going to wave a magic wand and suddenly every lost bus route in Manchester since de reg will suddenly return. They won’t!

[Mrboo]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising
Pre 1986 how many new routes have been made and how many lost. as in mid 80 there was a boom of minibus routes that many turned full size but by doing this did this mean other routes was lost due to it.

[Mrboo]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising
Just been reading https://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/trav...d=msedgntp

Bus use outside London is proving highly variable, reaching 42 per cent on Monday – the lowest weekday figure for a fortnight.

So if we are at about 42% use when shops and offices are closed I feel numbers will return fast.

So all this talk of pre levels may return maybe even higher as some car users have given up there cars or had company cars that are no longer in there household.

[iMarkeh]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising

(01/04/2021 04:26)Mrboo Wrote:  Just been reading https://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/trav...d=msedgntp

Bus use outside London is proving highly variable, reaching 42 per cent on Monday – the lowest weekday figure for a fortnight.

So if we are at about 42% use when shops and offices are closed I feel numbers will return fast.

So all this talk of pre levels may return maybe even higher as some car users have given up there cars or had company cars that are no longer in there household.

There is meant to be a "significant regional variation" though. It would be interesting to know the stats for the local area but I don't think anywhere has published them.


Quote "significant regional variation" is from a RouteOne article https://www.route-one.net/news/bus-patro...al-trends/