First Manchester

[gilesbus1]

RE: First Manchester
Lets not get into the argument of public or private ownership, as this appears elsewhere on the forum. The main point that I am making is that Stagecoach is/has said in the past that it will do as it did in Tyne & Wear and take legal action to try to protect its business, there may be a financial implication to this, which Stagecoach would be awarded as may others, the point I am making is that FirstGroup would also be entitled to a payout if it remains an operator as its business has aready suffered as a result of Andy Burnham's plans and will suffer further, in my mind that is what FirstGroup is after the payout, as it could be £millions and thus would also bail out what is a loss making business and make a healthy exit plan if it has no assets at Oldham to sell on.

As it is Oldham depot was marked for a regeneration scheme, even if its off the table now, future plans will probably emerge as the fact someone has highlighted it as an area for redeveloping, more than likely means someone else will, the fleet isn't worth much as its clocking up miles, and also the routes aren't worth much as they will be franchised out in any case.

Thus FirstGroup needs to gain something before it leaves and its best option is to obtain compensation money, or so it would seem, if Mr Burnham decides not to take that route then they can sell the business on in some form.

Another company who might explore compensation is Arriva as it may struggle to hold onto everything it has except cross boundary services into Merseyside and Cheshire and even Merseyside's Mayor Steve Rotherham is now following the same path or looking to follow the same path so in the longer term too as a small player in Greater Manchester those could be lost as well, although obviously it would be a major player in the Merseyside Market.

For the small players there is really little to gain as there business's currently are largely based on tenders largely including school contract work, so they will be no better or less off from either system, only Jim Stones was left who might have suffered by tenders but he is giving up in any case and he doesn't have enough commercial to merit any sort of major compensation payout.

[Mrboo]

RE: First Manchester

(20/01/2020 21:02)gilesbus1 Wrote:  Lets not get into the argument of public or private ownership, as this appears elsewhere on the forum. The main point that I am making is that Stagecoach is/has said in the past that it will do as it did in Tyne & Wear and take legal action to try to protect its business, there may be a financial implication to this, which Stagecoach would be awarded as may others, the point I am making is that FirstGroup would also be entitled to a payout if it remains an operator as its business has aready suffered as a result of Andy Burnham's plans and will suffer further, in my mind that is what FirstGroup is after the payout, as it could be £millions and thus would also bail out what is a loss making business and make a healthy exit plan if it has no assets at Oldham to sell on.

As it is Oldham depot was marked for a regeneration scheme, even if its off the table now, future plans will probably emerge as the fact someone has highlighted it as an area for redeveloping, more than likely means someone else will, the fleet isn't worth much as its clocking up miles, and also the routes aren't worth much as they will be franchised out in any case.

Thus FirstGroup needs to gain something before it leaves and its best option is to obtain compensation money, or so it would seem, if Mr Burnham decides not to take that route then they can sell the business on in some form.

Another company who might explore compensation is Arriva as it may struggle to hold onto everything it has except cross boundary services into Merseyside and Cheshire and even Merseyside's Mayor Steve Rotherham is now following the same path or looking to follow the same path so in the longer term too as a small player in Greater Manchester those could be lost as well, although obviously it would be a major player in the Merseyside Market.

For the small players there is really little to gain as there business's currently are largely based on tenders largely including school contract work, so they will be no better or less off from either system, only Jim Stones was left who might have suffered by tenders but he is giving up in any case and he doesn't have enough commercial to merit any sort of major compensation payout.

Compensation would be paid on loss of income if there no income but losses there be little they can do apart from take what is offered. it would be like a compulsory purchase order compensation they will give what the land is worth and loss of earning for a set time. So unless a route makes money they are stuck. they have broke up routes like the 83 this maybe so they can show part of a route makes money. First want out but they can`t find a buyer but at the current time they are best sticking with Oldham and bidding for routes but they would need to buy buses for this as am sure the buses at Oldham would not fit the tenders. but at this current time it will cost more to wind up Oldham then to let TFGM take over the staff

[gilesbus1]

RE: First Manchester

(21/01/2020 00:20)Mrboo Wrote:  Compensation would be paid on loss of income if there no income but losses there be little they can do apart from take what is offered. it would be like a compulsory purchase order compensation they will give what the land is worth and loss of earning for a set time. So unless a route makes money they are stuck. they have broke up routes like the 83 this maybe so they can show part of a route makes money. First want out but they can`t find a buyer but at the current time they are best sticking with Oldham and bidding for routes but they would need to buy buses for this as am sure the buses at Oldham would not fit the tenders. but at this current time it will cost more to wind up Oldham then to let TFGM take over the staff

Under current legislation TfGM can not take over any staff or operation of buses this is forbidden under the 1985 Transport Act, also TfGM haven't stated any operation of buses in their plans merely a tendered service option. Operators like FirstGroup and Stagecoach can seek compensation as the market in which they operate is being substantially changed and taken away so much so it has a detrimental effect on the business' ability to make a profit even at this current time, in effect TfGM have down valued the value of operators business' and as yet operators haven't taken this to Court, but Stagecoach specify that it will.

[Mrboo]

RE: First Manchester

(21/01/2020 07:28)gilesbus1 Wrote:  Under current legislation TfGM can not take over any staff or operation of buses this is forbidden under the 1985 Transport Act, also TfGM haven't stated any operation of buses in their plans merely a tendered service option. Operators like FirstGroup and Stagecoach can seek compensation as the market in which they operate is being substantially changed and taken away so much so it has a detrimental effect on the business' ability to make a profit even at this current time, in effect TfGM have down valued the value of operators business' and as yet operators haven't taken this to Court, but Stagecoach specify that it will.

But what is the value of operators business when it losing money for them. and it could be seen as they could gain on the new system it may not go as they hope.

[Mrboo]

RE: First Manchester
I don`t think Greenfield gets it 1 180 and 2 350 each hour and coming soon the new Ashton to Oldham route
for how many passengers each hour to demand more. I can see them cry about no Bus to Manchester but First don`t want the routes in Greenfield

https://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news-...eEwdW58Ldc

[Mrboo]

RE: First Manchester
Been told by a MCT driver that First Oldham plan to take on there Oldham and Ashton routes also ties in with what I been told that Oldham was getting more routes. been a bit of a u turn but it may just br a stop gap for TFGM

[M60lad]

RE: First Manchester
This sort of contradicts what I was told yesterday in that the only route Oldham have got from MCT is 408 Shaw-Oldham service and allegedly they are not interested in taking anymore minibus work on.

If indeed it is true that Oldham are taking on some of the Ashton tenders then time will tell what vehicles they will use on the routes as Oldham haven't got any small buses now and only have Enviro300s/B7s and Gemini/Enviro400s in the fleet which are too big for 335/345 Denton Circulars that MCT currently operate.

[NorthernCounties]

RE: First Manchester

(20/02/2020 07:05)M60lad Wrote:  This sort of contradicts what I was told yesterday in that the only route Oldham have got from MCT is 408 Shaw-Oldham service and allegedly they are not interested in taking anymore minibus work on.

If indeed it is true that Oldham are taking on some of the Ashton tenders then time will tell what vehicles they will use on the routes as Oldham haven't got any small buses now and only have Enviro300s/B7s and Gemini/Enviro400s in the fleet which are too big for 335/345 Denton Circulars that MCT currently operate.

I've been told any tenders that MCT still have will pass back to TfGM for re-tender. The only routes they've "lost" are ones they've lost in the current batch of re-tendering

[Mayneway]

RE: First Manchester

(20/02/2020 07:05)M60lad Wrote:  This sort of contradicts what I was told yesterday in that the only route Oldham have got from MCT is 408 Shaw-Oldham service and allegedly they are not interested in taking anymore minibus work on.

If indeed it is true that Oldham are taking on some of the Ashton tenders then time will tell what vehicles they will use on the routes as Oldham haven't got any small buses now and only have Enviro300s/B7s and Gemini/Enviro400s in the fleet which are too big for 335/345 Denton Circulars that MCT currently operate.

I believe it’s true and in a shock move First have bidded on a load of tenders and got them and some are in Ashton. A number of drivers from Stagecoach Ashton have gone to First on the promise of a Tameside rosta once they take on the tenders.

[M60lad]

RE: First Manchester
Well if First have won these tenders in Ashton it'll be interesting what they will operate them with and where the vehicles to operate them will come from. Good in a way though that Oldham are taking on more work again after a period of uncertainty.