First Manchester

[Mrboo]

RE: First Manchester

(07/07/2019 12:00)gilesbus1 Wrote:  Its likely the electric buses will not now Go Ahead as the money was awarded to First Manchester and not Diamond North West, situations like this have happened in the past and the money usually goes back into the pot for the next Green Bus Fund Bids for other bidders, elsewhere, within the Country. The 582 will likely be operated by Wright Streetlite MAX's or Wright StreetDeckers.

Is 582 a tendered route? as maybe staying due to the Green Bus Fund

[Y458 KNF]

RE: First Manchester
Another thing are vehicles likely to be swapped around before Bolton gets taken over?

[gilesbus1]

RE: First Manchester

(08/07/2019 14:59)Mrboo Wrote:  Is 582 a tendered route? as maybe staying due to the Green Bus Fund

No, 582 is commercial entirely, highly profitable busy route and is passing to Rotala, no Green Vehicles are now coming or due, and the grant won't be exercised.

Therefore guess the likely outcome here with vehicles is existing 11 reg saloons initially, indeed one has already had its FirstGroup logo's removed from the front, with an eventual plan to replace with something else, perhaps in year 2? Ideally the route could do with being decker operated as it carries high passenger numbers and missed out with 14 reg ADL Enviro400 as originally some of those where planned to go to Bolton to operate 582's when first ordered but the delivery in its entirety was diverted to Rusholme, now this latest batch is cancelled as well, so guess its a matter of wait and see!

[gilesbus1]

RE: First Manchester

(08/07/2019 14:59)darylyates17 Wrote:  Another thing are vehicles likely to be swapped around before Bolton gets taken over?

They will need to be moving fairly quickly if they are as only 5 weeks to do it in, the situation with Rusholme was that GoAhead asked for newer vehicles to be moved in to Queens Road that had been used at Rusholme. In the case of Bolton it doesn't matter as Rotala is only leasing them for up to two years then they will either be scrapped or cascaded elsewhere within the group. So not the same need to start moving vehicles around. Of course 36279/80, 39237-39261 and 69537-69539 along with a small number of other deckers and the driver training fleet will remain with First Manchester and will be transferred to Rusholme, probably before the sale of Bolton goes through along with Vantage Routes and one or two other small tenders.

What Diamond intends to train drivers on remains to be seen?

As for Transdev taking over Oldham, don't be too sure, as Bolton fitted better for Transdev and they didn't take that despite being rumoured as a likely buyer. Transdev operate in a different way to what Andy Burnham is proposing for Manchester and therefore its possibly unlikely Transdev would be interested in it, what both Transdev and Rotala might wan't to do is shovel up routes in the Rochdale area to bolt on to what they have already got, as for Oldham itself then that is another question?

[Mrboo]

RE: First Manchester

(08/07/2019 19:26)gilesbus1 Wrote:  They will need to be moving fairly quickly if they are as only 5 weeks to do it in, the situation with Rusholme was that GoAhead asked for newer vehicles to be moved in to Queens Road that had been used at Rusholme. In the case of Bolton it doesn't matter as Rotala is only leasing them for up to two years then they will either be scrapped or cascaded elsewhere within the group. So not the same need to start moving vehicles around. Of course 36279/80, 39237-39261 and 69537-69539 along with a small number of other deckers and the driver training fleet will remain with First Manchester and will be transferred to Rusholme, probably before the sale of Bolton goes through along with Vantage Routes and one or two other small tenders.

What Diamond intends to train drivers on remains to be seen?

As for Transdev taking over Oldham, don't be too sure, aI s Bolton fitted better for Transdev and they didn't take that despite being rumoured as a likely buyer. Transdev operate in a different way to what Andy Burnham is proposing for Manchester and therefore its possibly unlikely Transdev would be interested in it, what both Transdev and Rotala might wan't to do is shovel up routes in the Rochdale area to bolt on to what they have already got, as for Oldham itself then that is another question?

With MCT moving out of Rosso I could see Transdev doing a deal for Rochdale routes from First maybe as they have the base. and as I would think Stagecoach / MCT going for rest of First Oldham routes as I cant see a Buyer for Mumps

[gilesbus1]

RE: First Manchester

(08/07/2019 20:18)Mrboo Wrote:  With MCT moving out of Rosso I could see Transdev doing a deal for Rochdale routes from First maybe as they have the base. and as I would think Stagecoach / MCT going for rest of First Oldham routes as I cant see a Buyer for Mumps

There is also another thing in the equation with Rochdale, that being that the former Mellor Street depot is/was for sale, so an operator might buy that separately with a view to routes there.

Diamond also could do such routes as the Kirkholt and attach it on the end of a 471 for example.

Of course the issue with Oldham is what does an operator actually get, as the depot tenancy isn't secure as the site has been reserved for development. So therefore if you paid money for it and Andy Burnham's plan came off you having nothing to show for it and no secure base and an elderly none suitable fleet, therefore you've bought nothing secure. So suspect Transdev and Rotala take the northern routes in Rochdale and Middleton with Stagecaoch and MCT taking Oldham routes and services into Manchester. Also First may keep some routes itself and operate them from Huddersfield or Todmorden, (Cross Boundary Routes and those on the Pennine's itself).

[Mrboo]

RE: First Manchester

(08/07/2019 21:01)gilesbus1 Wrote:  There is also another thing in the equation with Rochdale, that being that the former Mellor Street depot is/was for sale, so an operator might buy that separately with a view to routes there.

Diamond also could do such routes as the Kirkholt and attach it on the end of a 471 for example.

Of course the issue with Oldham is what does an operator actually get, as the depot tenancy isn't secure as the site has been reserved for development. So therefore if you paid money for it and Andy Burnham's plan came off you having nothing to show for it and no secure base and an elderly none suitable fleet, therefore you've bought nothing secure. So suspect Transdev and Rotala take the northern routes in Rochdale and Middleton with Stagecaoch and MCT taking Oldham routes and services into Manchester. Also First may keep some routes itself and operate them from Huddersfield or Todmorden, (Cross Boundary Routes and those on the Pennine's itself).

routes like 180/184 could stay with first by using Rusholme as an outstation of Yorkshire for drivers and limited buses but I don`t First want rest.

[Mayneway]

RE: First Manchester

(08/07/2019 19:26)gilesbus1 Wrote:  As for Transdev taking over Oldham, don't be too sure, as Bolton fitted better for Transdev and they didn't take that despite being rumoured as a likely buyer. Transdev operate in a different way to what Andy Burnham is proposing for Manchester and therefore its possibly unlikely Transdev would be interested in it, what both Transdev and Rotala might wan't to do is shovel up routes in the Rochdale area to bolt on to what they have already got, as for Oldham itself then that is another question?

Are you sure on the Andy Burnham line?? I’m pretty sure at the time it was announced Transdev were buying Rosso, they stated on Twitter that they were looking forward to expanding further into Manchester and when asked about the subject of proposed franchising said the idea of franchising didn’t worry them.

I would have thought Oldham would have fitted nicely into the transdev business under the Rosso arm so to speak.

[Neukit]

RE: First Manchester

(09/07/2019 00:52)Mayneway Wrote:  Are you sure on the Andy Burnham line?? I’m pretty sure at the time it was announced Transdev were buying Rosso, they stated on Twitter that they were looking forward to expanding further into Manchester and when asked about the subject of proposed franchising said the idea of franchising didn’t worry them.

I would have thought Oldham would have fitted nicely into the transdev business under the Rosso arm so to speak.

Transdev’s UK bus operations are the only ones, in their large worldwide portfolio, that don’t operate in a franchised/regulated environment, so of course they won’t be worried about it potentially happening in GM.

[Mayneway]

RE: First Manchester

(09/07/2019 21:17)Neukit Wrote:  Transdev’s UK bus operations are the only ones, in their large worldwide portfolio, that don’t operate in a franchised/regulated environment, so of course they won’t be worried about it potentially happening in GM.

Don’t think they would have touched Rosso if they were in any way worried. Infact from what I’m repeatedly hearing, Transdev are very keen to expand the Rosso business into greater Manchester.