Crosville on the Wirral

[MTL0201]

RE: Crosville on the Wirral

(05/04/2019 08:17)L544 Wrote:  471 originally 71 Heswall via Irby was always Birkenhead Corporation, later MPTE was the only non-Crosville presence in Heswall.

Other regular Crossville Heswall Birkenhead services on Barnston Road by Crossville have all but disapperared.
F22 via Lever Causeway direct to Borough Road (the fastest service from Heswall). F23 via Thingwall and Lower Village, F24 via Thingwall only

Actually F24 was via Lever Causeway & Storeton, F22/F23 was the direct route via Thingwall with F23 diviating via Heswall Lower Village, according to my 1977 Wirral division timetable, both F22 & F24 were timed to take 32 minutes end to end, F19, 35 minutes, PTE 71/71A 43 minutes.

In the 1979 changes the F22/F23/F24 became 75/76/77.

[MTL0201]

RE: Crosville on the Wirral
Also to add, when Arrowe Park Hospital was completed & opened, 72C/72D Woodside-Ness Gardens via Heswall, was introduced diverting via the hospital, & replaced the F14/F16 Heswall-Ness Gardens, 74 Cleaver Hospital-Woodside was withdrawn, as Arrowe Park Hospital replaced Cleaver Hospital.


Here's a PTE Wirral map from 1981, Arrowe Park Hospital would have been under construction when this map was published

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dmc1947/al...2589353976

[SandyDrew]

RE: Crosville on the Wirral
Thanks everyone for the valued input. ;-)

[MTL0201]

RE: Crosville on the Wirral

(05/04/2019 20:39)SNL 824 Wrote:  Hey L544, the F22 and F24 were the other way round.. but you're right about the service to Barnston disappearing with the demise of Avon 77.
I believe the 71A variant appeared in the late 50s with the development of housing between Irby and Pensby.
In Birkenhead Corpy days there was also a 71B to Irby or Thingwall Corner. In MPTE days this was one of the last few workings booked for the last four Birkenhead PD2s to and from the Pensby schools.

Yep, the old 71 went from Irby to Thurstaston then Telegraph Road to Heswall, the 71A went the other way Irby-Heswall via the current 471, 71C was introduced after Arrowe Park Hospital was opened, this diverted via the hospital, 71C, rest of the route the 71C followed the 71A

Mid 70s there was a PTE peak hour rapidride, 471 Irby-Woodside[2 journeys morning & 2 journeys afternoon], this went non stop Hamilton Square-Thingwall Corner, then all stops Irby Post Office

Until the late 80s all buses from Woodside to Borough Road went outwards via Argyle Street then Borough Road, never went via the market, & Claughton Road, you can still see a couple of unused laybys these used to be bus stops, on Borough Road heading away from the Town Centre

[L80]

RE: Crosville on the Wirral
I remember as a kid that buses were by and large not allowed through the tunnel. The tunnel was not part of the national road network and belonged to Liverpool, Birkenhead and Wallesy Corporations. Wallasey and Birkenhead also owned and operated the ferries. Crosville express services where allowed through. I think........

[MTL0201]

RE: Crosville on the Wirral
Not to sure that's the case, as wasn't the night tunnel bus service up & running by the time the PTE took over?

Main problem though was the ferries, any regular tunnel bus would take work from the ferries[or so the unions would claim], unions would be out straight away in protest, so buses were coordinated to Woodside/Seacombe/Pier Head, last buses from the ferry terminals were normally timed to connect with the last ferries[certainly most PTE routes were], d-reg changed all that, straight away there was an increase in cross river bus routes, with Queensway[Birkenhead]tunnel having regular services

[L80]

RE: Crosville on the Wirral

(04/06/2019 21:54)MTL0201 Wrote:  Not to sure that's the case, as wasn't the night tunnel bus service up & running by the time the PTE took over?

Main problem though was the ferries, any regular tunnel bus would take work from the ferries[or so the unions would claim], unions would be out straight away in protest, so buses were coordinated to Woodside/Seacombe/Pier Head, last buses from the ferry terminals were normally timed to connect with the last ferries[certainly most PTE routes were], d-reg changed all that, straight away there was an increase in cross river bus routes, with Queensway[Birkenhead]tunnel having regular services

Yes you are right although I am talking very much about the (very) pre-pte period. Cross river services did increase post 69 of course. Engineering disruption due to the loop-line construction and the withdrawal of the New Brighton Ferry also created demand for cross river services.

[MTL0201]

RE: Crosville on the Wirral
Even pre PTE, you had the railway as well which would have objected to any expansion on cross river services as well as the ferries objections[i'm sure BR or pre BR companies, objected to a couple of routes Crosville planed to introduce, & were successful in getting the bus route plans cancelled], it was only the opening of the Kingsway[Wallasey] tunnel that the PTE introduced the 31/32, then a couple of years later Crosville routes 418/419, via M53 & Kingsway[Wallasey] tunnel, both routes benefited as they went mostly some distance from the rail line.

[Barney]

RE: Crosville on the Wirral

(04/06/2019 18:52)L80 Wrote:  I remember as a kid that buses were by and large not allowed through the tunnel. The tunnel was not part of the national road network and belonged to Liverpool, Birkenhead and Wallesy Corporations. Wallasey and Birkenhead also owned and operated the ferries. Crosville express services where allowed through. I think........

Prior to deregulation in 1986, the main reason why there were very few local buses running through the tunnels was simply because the MPTE did not want them to as the policy at the time was to force passengers onto to Merseyrail Wirral lines. From 26.10.86, the privatised bus companies could do whatever they wanted.

[L80]

RE: Crosville on the Wirral

(06/06/2019 08:34)Barney Wrote:  Prior to deregulation in 1986, the main reason why there were very few local buses running through the tunnels was simply because the MPTE did not want them to as the policy at the time was to force passengers onto to Merseyrail Wirral lines. From 26.10.86, the privatised bus companies could do whatever they wanted.

Yes indeed but I am going back long before de-reg and MPTE. There was no Merseyrail then. BR terminated at Central via James St. Most travel across the river was by ferry. Some bus services like the 510 terminated at Central Station which gave some level of interchange with the trains. But basically the ferries were owned by the corporations (Birkenhead and Wirral) who were also part owners with Liverpool Corporation of the tunnel.