First Manchester

[Barney]

RE: First Manchester

(19/02/2019 12:56)motormayhem1 Wrote:  Go Ahead have been trying to get into the northwest for a while , as it was them who tried to purchase GTL before stagecoach stepped in with a slightly higher offer.
This could be there first step into the northwest in the hope to expand further with franchising coming closer.

As Go-Ahead doesn't have a corporate identity (unlike the other three big players) it will be interesting to see what livery it adopts in Manchester. Andy Burnham recently suggested that a common livery for all TfGM bus services might be adopted and my guess is that GA's will probably be something along the lines of former GMT: orange, white and brown.

[rod_259]

RE: First Manchester

(19/02/2019 12:56)motormayhem1 Wrote:  Go Ahead have been trying to get into the northwest for a while , as it was them who tried to purchase GTL before stagecoach stepped in with a slightly higher offer.
This could be there first step into the northwest in the hope to expand further with franchising coming closer.

Wouldn’t be surprised if they bought Oldham as well as there shouldn’t be any real competition issues there. Also would be a reasonable size on which to compete with other operators (especially Stagecoach).

[gilesbus1]

RE: First Manchester
I think looking at it Manchester depot was possibly the easiest of the three to sell for the following reasons:-

OLDHAM - The depot site is on a map for redevelopment in Oldham, so there might be no long stay there for whoever buys it, also might the existing owner whoever that is want to retain it to capitalise on any redevelopment - HEAD OFFICE - The situation here is the large HO building built in the 1980's might be surplus to requirement and staff could be located to other depots or offices as that building would no longer be required.

BOLTON - There are Vantage Routes tangled up here and also a Green Bus Fund Bid for the 582, that might make some difference as to whether that can be transferred to a new operator when it was originally awarded to First Manchester, also if Stagecoach is a bidder for this and they may or may not be there may or may not be MMC hurdles to go through first, e.g. some indication that a bid might be allowed to go through.

Either way its likely sales of the other two will be quite quick I would have thought.

[acocker96]

RE: First Manchester
Go-Ahead would have done some due diligence before the takeover and probably looked at fleet age and condition, I can see Queens Road getting a load of ex-London vehicles as replacements for the B7RLE’s whose days are now probably sadly numbered.

[Y458 KNF]

RE: First Manchester

(19/02/2019 17:00)acocker96 Wrote:  Go-Ahead would have done some due diligence before the takeover and probably looked at fleet age and condition, I can see Queens Road getting a load of ex-London vehicles as replacements for the B7RLE’s whose days are now probably sadly numbered.

I wonder if First will swap any of the newer vehicles with older ones from other depots before Queens Road officially gets taken over by Go-Ahead

[gilesbus1]

RE: First Manchester

(19/02/2019 17:05)darylyates17 Wrote:  I wonder if First will swap any of the newer vehicles with older ones from other depots before Queens Road officially gets taken over by Go-Ahead

I can't see it, what people forget is that if you put in a load of old bangers, the price to be paid goes down, and the net value is less. First need to sell at a higher rate to make returns to pay off the debt.

Plus also the older vehicles generally are at Queens Road anyway. There might I guess be an odd move like there was at Wigan but apart from that I think what is based there now is what will go to Go Ahead.

The question then is what happens after Go Ahead take over as the age profile is wrong and unbalanced into a few large batches. Some Volvo B9TL's might well be suitable to go to East Yorkshire or Go North Eeast to replace older stock there, while new vehicles come in, what the buying policy of the new company might be remains to be seen, so I don't wish to make any further comments on that, London stock might be an option except most stock coming out of London has the same age profile or is older than the B9TL's that are here anyway.

[Y458 KNF]

RE: First Manchester

(19/02/2019 19:28)gilesbus1 Wrote:  I can't see it, what people forget is that if you put in a load of old bangers, the price to be paid goes down, and the net value is less. First need to sell at a higher rate to make returns to pay off the debt.

Plus also the older vehicles generally are at Queens Road anyway. There might I guess be an odd move like there was at Wigan but apart from that I think what is based there now is what will go to Go Ahead.

The question then is what happens after Go Ahead take over as the age profile is wrong and unbalanced into a few large batches. Some Volvo B9TL's might well be suitable to go to East Yorkshire or Go North Eeast to replace older stock there, while new vehicles come in, what the buying policy of the new company might be remains to be seen, so I don't wish to make any further comments on that, London stock might be an option except most stock coming out of London has the same age profile or is older than the B9TL's that are here anyway.

Ethier way I do think that Go-Ahead will invest in new vehicles at least

[gilesbus1]

RE: First Manchester
Yep I recon so to, some effort needs to be made to get the fleet age balanced, otherwise a small company with lower cash resources would have to replace nearly the entire fleet over a 4-5 year period which is too much out of a units profits, that's presuming they are in profit at that time, whoever buys Bolton and/or Oldham would probably need to do similar. With Wigan depot it wasn't so bad as it was part of a much larger group, but even Stagecoach evened out the vehicle policy there and replaced vehicles within the fleet very quickly with transfers from other depots and newer vehicles, however in Stagecoach's case the fleet was all none standard in a highly standardised fleet anyway.

[gilesbus1]

RE: First Manchester

(19/02/2019 15:05)Barney Wrote:  As Go-Ahead doesn't have a corporate identity (unlike the other three big players) it will be interesting to see what livery it adopts in Manchester. Andy Burnham recently suggested that a common livery for all TfGM bus services might be adopted and my guess is that GA's will probably be something along the lines of former GMT: orange, white and brown.

There would be little point in this unless they engage in dialog with TfGM and the other parties involved as it might be very easy to pick the wrong shade or design of the livery, thus money wasted, also there is no guarantee they will pick Orange as they haven't specified that, all they have stated is that if franchising goes ahead buses would be in a common livery, it might equally be some sort of variation of the Metrolink livery, or they may put it out to some sort of online vote.

It would just be as easy for Go Ahead to go into the Museum next door and copy Manchester City Transport livery off the 1968 Mancunian 1001 that's resident there.

Having said that though it has said they will communicate with different organisations in the community before designing a trading name and livery.

It might also be best practice just to buy vinyls and apply it onto the existing white base livery to save money at this stage, as its impossible to know how long the livery might last, so it can be removed quickly if need be and replaced with any corporate scheme TfGM might have in mind.

[Brickmill]

RE: First Manchester

(19/02/2019 19:51)gilesbus1 Wrote:  There would be little point in this unless they engage in dialog with TfGM and the other parties involved as it might be very easy to pick the wrong shade or design of the livery, thus money wasted, also there is no guarantee they will pick Orange as they haven't specified that, all they have stated is that if franchising goes ahead buses would be in a common livery, it might equally be some sort of variation of the Metrolink livery, or they may put it out to some sort of online vote.

It would just be as easy for Go Ahead to go into the Museum next door and copy Manchester City Transport livery off the 1968 Mancunian 1001 that's resident there.

Having said that though it has said they will communicate with different organisations in the community before designing a trading name and livery.

It might also be best practice just to buy vinyls and apply it onto the existing white base livery to save money at this stage, as its impossible to know how long the livery might last, so it can be removed quickly if need be and replaced with any corporate scheme TfGM might have in mind.

Indeed, I would not be surprised if they had already spoken to TFGM about such things, even if only on the basis of possible franchising. suspect other ops have done the same. Equally, they will know that Bus Reform is not exactly progressing rapidly. There will be plenty of time to plan repaints if relevant. As said,. Mr Burnham is keen on a common identity, but I suspect only two options have been completed ruled out! I