GM Buses Liverpool

[Walton 46]

GM Buses Liverpool
In 1993, following MTL's incursions in Greater Manchester, GM Buses North set up a subsidiary, GM Buses Liverpool. Operating from a depot in Bootle, they operated copycat services over some of Merseybus's more profitable services in Liverpool. From what I know, here's some of the services they operated:

18A Lower Lane-City Centre
26A Bootle Bus Station/Scotland Road-Princes Road (services from Bootle via Marsh Lane, Stanley Road, Boundary Street, Kirkdale Road, then normal 26 route)
27A Princes Road-Scotland Road
27B Princes Road-Bootle Bus Station (reverse of 26A)
34 Manchester-Liverpool (existing route)
79 Netherley-Croxteth (as 79 to City Centre, then 14 to Croxteth)
320 Wigan-Liverpool (existing route)

I've read they also operated route in and around Southport, Kirkby and Formby, but I don't have any details to hand. Can someone fill me in please?

[B10B6514]

RE: GM Buses Liverpool
In Southport they piggy backed onto MTL's 5 and 6 Kew to Town Lane which was run by Bolton depot using GM Express Olympians which ran in service from there everyday as positioning runs.

They also ran on the 8 and 9 Crossens to Woodvale with ex-Cardiff and Yorkshire Rider MCW Metroriders from their Liverpool depot branded as Lancashire Gem- these also ran on the 284 but numbered 8 or 9 from Seaforth also for positioning purposes.

[gilesbus1]

RE: GM Buses Liverpool

(12/02/2019 11:14)Walton 46 Wrote:  In 1993, following MTL's incursions in Greater Manchester, GM Buses North set up a subsidiary, GM Buses Liverpool. Operating from a depot in Bootle, they operated copycat services over some of Merseybus's more profitable services in Liverpool. From what I know, here's some of the services they operated:

18A Lower Lane-City Centre
26A Bootle Bus Station/Scotland Road-Princes Road (services from Bootle via Marsh Lane, Stanley Road, Boundary Street, Kirkdale Road, then normal 26 route)
27A Princes Road-Scotland Road
27B Princes Road-Bootle Bus Station (reverse of 26A)
34 Manchester-Liverpool (existing route)
79 Netherley-Croxteth (as 79 to City Centre, then 14 to Croxteth)
320 Wigan-Liverpool (existing route)

I've read they also operated route in and around Southport, Kirkby and Formby, but I don't have any details to hand. Can someone fill me in please?

They also ran service 21 to Liverpool to Fazakerley which was worked from Atherton Depot were the 799 was worked from Wigan, starter journey would commence on service 21 at Leigh and work down to Lowton then onto the A580 to Fazakerley and last journeys would do the reverse, I also understand that there was an extension of the 79 back to Wigan but I have no proof of that???

Also on Saturdays vehicles from Oldham depot would work through Greater Manchester then round the back of Atherton and Leigh using Atherleigh Way and then would go up the A580 and start services on another route in Liverpool that I can't remember??? maybe someone else can clarify some of this???? as my memory is slipping Oldham use the 1991/2 Volvo Citybuses with Northern Counties bodies, Atherton used 1984-1986 Olympians with Northern Counties bodies in the main and Wigan used 1988/9 revised fronted Northern Counties Olympians on the 79 of which GM North reallocated all but two to Wigan from other depots for this purpose, the other two were at Atherton so in practice could have appeared on the 21. Also there was another route from Liverpool depot that operated to Fazakerley using MCW Metrorider Minibuses which caused controversy as the spelling of Fazakerley was wrong but again I can't remember what number that was either????? I do have pictures some where but can't access them at the moment unfortunately.

[Walton 46]

RE: GM Buses Liverpool

(14/02/2019 19:46)B10B6514 Wrote:  In Southport they piggy backed onto MTL's 5 and 6 Kew to Town Lane which was run by Bolton depot using GM Express Olympians which ran in service from there everyday as positioning runs.

They also ran on the 8 and 9 Crossens to Woodvale with ex-Cardiff and Yorkshire Rider MCW Metroriders from their Liverpool depot branded as Lancashire Gem- these also ran on the 284 but numbered 8 or 9 from Seaforth also for positioning purposes.

I saw a photo on flickr of a GM Buses Metrorider in Seaforth on a 9 service, something that confused me given as far as I know, there's never been a 9 service in Seaforth. thanks for clearing that up

[gilesbus1]

RE: GM Buses Liverpool
I've looked at this further Liverpool depot ran service 17C to Fazakerley Hospital, think the start point was Liverpool using Metroriders branded as Liverpool Gem, those at Southport were outstationed on a car park somewhere I belive and carried Lancashire Gem Branding, the two brands as far as I know were not mixed between Liverpool and Southport. I also have a picture of a Fleetline working the 17C also There was also a service 14 operated by Wigan Depot using F plate Olympians that ran Liverpool Gyratory to Croxteth like you say worked off a 79 and changed number to a 14. Then there was a 14C to Croxteth worked by Liverpool depot using Atlanteans and Fleetlines, Liverpool also had journeys on the 14 besides Wigan Depot, further research of the 21 shows that finished at Kirkby Bus Station, so it was presumably short workings that finished at Fazakerley. So now I will summarise in a service listing:-

21 Liverpool - Fazakerley - Kirkby Bus Station operated by Atherton Depot first jouney in the morning started at Leigh Bus Station and the two final journeys at night continued along the A580 East Lancs Road to Lowton then to Leigh Bus Station.
14 Liverpool Gyratory - Croxteth - (Wigan Depot/Bootle Depot) (few journeys)
14C Liverpool Gyratory - Croxteth - (Bootle Depot) - some journeys operated by Liverpool Gem Minibuses.
17C Liverpool Gyratory - Fazakerley Hospital - (Bootle Depot)
18A I have some journeys with a destination of Muirhead Avenue - presume these must be short workings - operated by Bootle Depot.

If I remember rightly Bootle Depot was at Bedford Place and also had its own recovery lorry which was the Bedford TK that was later manufactured by EFE it was originally new at Leigh Depot then moved to Atherton and was replaced there by a Volvo FL6 model and it languished a while and then moved to Bootle - it is now preserved.

Hope all this helps?? It was an interesting time there was always stuff of interest in both Liverpool and Manchester very day, every week and in-between the two Cities and beyond as well. One of the things that brought stuff to a head was MTL had appointed Alan Johnson who knew Manchester well through working there while GMN's Chief Executive at the time was Alan Westwell who was a Liverpudlian by birth, both knew each others territories very well and were able to pick lucrative routes to compete on to try to hit profits of one another. That I think was when they finally knew they couldn't carry on competing like they had been doing as each others key staff knew each others Cities as well as the directors that were with the native directors if not better. GMS's trump card was there Birkenhead & District subsiduary but they also operated Atlanteans from Princess Road Depot in Manchester, which was probably there nearest depot to Liverpoo, some 40 or so miles away, on services 26 & 27 Shield Road Circulars.

[MPTE1955]

RE: GM Buses Liverpool
14 actually ran to Kirkby civic centre eventually and did until the end using F plate Olympians.

[St Helens Rider]

RE: GM Buses Liverpool
Can confirm the 79 did have morning/evening positioning journeys to/from Wigan via Billinge.

[Brickmill]

RE: GM Buses Liverpool
Hope all this helps?? It was an interesting time there was always stuff of interest in both Liverpool and Manchester very day, every week and in-between the two Cities and beyond as well. One of the things that brought stuff to a head was MTL had appointed Alan Johnson who knew Manchester well through working there while GMN's Chief Executive at the time was Alan Westwell who was a Liverpudlian by birth, both knew each others territories very well and were able to pick lucrative routes to compete on to try to hit profits of one another. That I think was when they finally knew they couldn't carry on competing like they had been doing as each others key staff knew each others Cities as well as the directors that were with the native directors if not better.
[/quote]

That and the city centre bus strategy. Remember MTL used 100 filthy 17-19 year old Atlantean s which produced more NoX and far more PM10 s that the whole GM based bus fleet of today. Not forgetting these buses were. Then left with engines running for 20+ minutes at a time at outer termini

[Walton 46]

RE: GM Buses Liverpool

(15/02/2019 00:56)gilesbus1 Wrote:  I've looked at this further Liverpool depot ran service 17C to Fazakerley Hospital, think the start point was Liverpool using Metroriders branded as Liverpool Gem, those at Southport were outstationed on a car park somewhere I belive and carried Lancashire Gem Branding, the two brands as far as I know were not mixed between Liverpool and Southport. I also have a picture of a Fleetline working the 17C also There was also a service 14 operated by Wigan Depot using F plate Olympians that ran Liverpool Gyratory to Croxteth like you say worked off a 79 and changed number to a 14. Then there was a 14C to Croxteth worked by Liverpool depot using Atlanteans and Fleetlines, Liverpool also had journeys on the 14 besides Wigan Depot, further research of the 21 shows that finished at Kirkby Bus Station, so it was presumably short workings that finished at Fazakerley. So now I will summarise in a service listing:-

21 Liverpool - Fazakerley - Kirkby Bus Station operated by Atherton Depot first jouney in the morning started at Leigh Bus Station and the two final journeys at night continued along the A580 East Lancs Road to Lowton then to Leigh Bus Station.
14 Liverpool Gyratory - Croxteth - (Wigan Depot/Bootle Depot) (few journeys)
14C Liverpool Gyratory - Croxteth - (Bootle Depot) - some journeys operated by Liverpool Gem Minibuses.
17C Liverpool Gyratory - Fazakerley Hospital - (Bootle Depot)
18A I have some journeys with a destination of Muirhead Avenue - presume these must be short workings - operated by Bootle Depot.

If I remember rightly Bootle Depot was at Bedford Place and also had its own recovery lorry which was the Bedford TK that was later manufactured by EFE it was originally new at Leigh Depot then moved to Atherton and was replaced there by a Volvo FL6 model and it languished a while and then moved to Bootle - it is now preserved.

Hope all this helps?? It was an interesting time there was always stuff of interest in both Liverpool and Manchester very day, every week and in-between the two Cities and beyond as well. One of the things that brought stuff to a head was MTL had appointed Alan Johnson who knew Manchester well through working there while GMN's Chief Executive at the time was Alan Westwell who was a Liverpudlian by birth, both knew each others territories very well and were able to pick lucrative routes to compete on to try to hit profits of one another. That I think was when they finally knew they couldn't carry on competing like they had been doing as each others key staff knew each others Cities as well as the directors that were with the native directors if not better. GMS's trump card was there Birkenhead & District subsiduary but they also operated Atlanteans from Princess Road Depot in Manchester, which was probably there nearest depot to Liverpoo, some 40 or so miles away, on services 26 & 27 Shield Road Circulars.

Was the 21 the same route as today's 21 or different?

With regards to the 18A, according to my GM Buses timetable, it started and finished on Muirhead Ave East with the first 4/5 morning journeys starting and last 6/7 evening journeys finishing at the Lower Lane turning circle. Most services finished at the Gyratory but continued to the Pier Head in peak hours

[Raawwwrrr!]

RE: GM Buses Liverpool
In Southport they seemed to operate the 284 Liverpool to Southport and a 9 (49) between Crossens and Woodvale/Seaforth